48 replies to this topic

[Josh Blaylock]

Are you inviting me to your house, Martin?

[Mysteryman]

Despite what the maps suggests, you usually won't find Sailfins and Flagfins together. Sailfins tend to zoom around in flowing current, while Flagfins tend to hang around in one spot, usually a deeper spot right under a waterfall, snag, or fallen log. They might well be in the same creek, but you'll have to do some exploring to find them both.

 

Taillights near Ft Walton?

The only place I know to reliably find Taillights anywhere close to Ft Walton is way over in Clarke County, AL, and that's not close at all. There should be some closer, but I've never been able to find them.

Weed Shiners living in very tannic water will look just like Taillights, by the way. It's pretty cool, but it can frustrate you after that first water change and you find you've been fooled.

 

The missing Pteronotropis, the one that Dick Stober used to catch and sell in his shop so long ago? Yes, I'm sure it exists. Others have reportedly caught the rare and elusive "Scarlet Sailfin," but since 9-11 it's been mighty hard to get anywhere near them. I searched for quite awhile, but kept getting caught by Game Wardens and Air Force types. I certainly hope that someday someone does find them again and get them to the right people for proper description. When that happens, I'd suggest the name "Shalimar Shiner"; Pteronotropis stoberi. ( I used to advocate the name P. eglini, but those Eglin AFB guys have been so darned unhelpful and hostile that they don't deserve it. Dick Stober discovered them, so he deserves it.  )

 

C. venusta? You want venusta? Well, you certainly picked the right place. They're everywhere in that area, and possibly the predominant species. You'll be sick of them in no time.

 

Silverjaws are plentiful, too, and easy to find. If you like darters, the Yellow River is full of Ammocryptas which are so perfectly transparent that they look like they're made of water. Really neat. The bridge at Hwy 2, near Blackmon, is a great spot to catch all sorts of good stuff. There is a little parking area under the bridge which is very handy.

[Josh Blaylock]

Despite what the maps suggests, you usually won't find Sailfins and Flagfins together. Sailfins tend to zoom around in flowing current, while Flagfins tend to hang around in one spot, usually a deeper spot right under a waterfall, snag, or fallen log. They might well be in the same creek, but you'll have to do some exploring to find them both.

 

Taillights near Ft Walton?

The only place I know to reliably find Taillights anywhere close to Ft Walton is way over in Clarke County, AL, and that's not close at all. There should be some closer, but I've never been able to find them.

Weed Shiners living in very tannic water will look just like Taillights, by the way. It's pretty cool, but it can frustrate you after that first water change and you find you've been fooled.

 

The missing Pteronotropis, the one that Dick Stober used to catch and sell in his shop so long ago? Yes, I'm sure it exists. Others have reportedly caught the rare and elusive "Scarlet Sailfin," but since 9-11 it's been mighty hard to get anywhere near them. I searched for quite awhile, but kept getting caught by Game Wardens and Air Force types. I certainly hope that someday someone does find them again and get them to the right people for proper description. When that happens, I'd suggest the name "Shalimar Shiner"; Pteronotropis stoberi. ( I used to advocate the name P. eglini, but those Eglin AFB guys have been so darned unhelpful and hostile that they don't deserve it. Dick Stober discovered them, so he deserves it.  )

 

C. venusta? You want venusta? Well, you certainly picked the right place. They're everywhere in that area, and possibly the predominant species. You'll be sick of them in no time.

 

Silverjaws are plentiful, too, and easy to find. If you like darters, the Yellow River is full of Ammocryptas which are so perfectly transparent that they look like they're made of water. Really neat. The bridge at Hwy 2, near Blackmon, is a great spot to catch all sorts of good stuff. There is a little parking area under the bridge which is very handy.

 

 

Thanks for the tips.  What is this Scarlet Sailfin you speak of?  I haven't heard of that one.

 

Have you been to that spot at Turkey Creek park in Niceville?  It just seems like good access and it's nearby.

[Josh Blaylock]

Little bump, heading out Saturday. Anybody else have any info on the fish around Fort Walton?

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[Irate Mormon]

Are you inviting me to your house, Martin?

Well, I was gonna say yes, but I guess your trip is over with by now.  But if you expect to find any cool natives under my carport, all you're gonna get is oil stains.

[NativeLover]

Find any interesting fish, Josh?

[Josh Blaylock]

Find any interesting fish, Josh?

I'm hoping to go to Turkey creek and/or Black River on Thursday. The problem is, this area (destin) go roughly 8 inches of rain yesterday. It was a monsoon and the streets were flooded. The Black River didn't get as much, but I'm afraid Turkey creek may be blown out.

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[Josh Blaylock]

Find any interesting fish, Josh?

I'm hoping to go to Turkey creek and/or Black River on Thursday. The problem is, this area (destin) go roughly 8 inches of rain yesterday. It was a monsoon and the streets were flooded. The Black River didn't get as much, but I'm afraid Turkey creek may be blown out.

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[NativeLover]

I'm hoping to go to Turkey creek and/or Black River on Thursday. The problem is, this area (destin) go roughly 8 inches of rain yesterday. It was a monsoon and the streets were flooded. The Black River didn't get as much, but I'm afraid Turkey creek may be blown out.
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It rained quite a bit here in KY too. Much needed though.

[Josh Blaylock]

So I made it to the Black River today. I didn't catch much. I think if I had more people and a bigger seine you could catch some fish. Funny thing is I really didn't see any fish out schooling of anything. Most of what I caught was on the bank cuts.

Caught a few darters, a couple small minnows, bluegill, maybe a golden sucker, and a lot of Blackstripe Topminnows.

I was very disappointed, I found another creek on the way home, and hit the jackpot. Loaded with Flagfin Shiners and a few others. At first I thought they were Taillight Shiners, but now I'm leaning towards Weed Shiners. This creek was awesome, would love to have a bigger seine and 2-3 more people. There were some other species there because I saw some larger fish.

Photos to come

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[Josh Blaylock]

https://goo.gl/photo...6bDPX8aYgXrvjz6

Check out the shiner, I'm leaning towards Weed. Yellow river drainage.

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[Michael Wolfe]

This is my best weed shiner picture... the clear section on the bottom half of the dorsal fin and the clear anterior portion of the anal fin are the identifying marks that were explained to me by Camm Swift (and he knows them better than most).  Seems to match your photo in hand pretty well... I can kind of see a clear-ish anal fin...maybe?

 

[Kanus]

Is that what a weed looks like? If so, I guess what I brought back from Florida (also at the time thinking they were taillights) are maybe coastals, because they certainly don't look like your photo Michael!

 

I'm happy to report that after seeing taillights in person, I don't think I could mis-ID them again. I was probably seeing what I wanted to see a bit as well

 

Joshua, your Pteronotropis look like sailfins rather than flagfins. Absolutely gorgeous amazing fish still though. Though I have only limited experience from catching them this past winter (and studying on them a lot) I think if you want to find flagfins, you'll probably need to find smaller water. Where I was catching flagfins the creeks were 6-8 feet across at most. And we collected at a stream a few hundred yards away that was larger and found only sailfins, no flagfins.

 

Your sucker looks like an Erimyzon and considering how different it looks than any that I've ever seen, I have to suspect it's a Sharpfin Chubsucker (though I've yet to see one in person). Glad you found some fish!

[Michael Wolfe]

My photo is pretty much high breeding color for Weed Shiners... they normally look like that but with minimal color... but even in low colors they clear at the base of the dorsal and clear in the front of of the anal fin are diagnostic.  Sometimes I have seen them where there is only a hint of color on the posterior rays of the anal fin and almost nothing on the dorsals.

[Josh Blaylock]

Is that what a weed looks like? If so, I guess what I brought back from Florida (also at the time thinking they were taillights) are maybe coastals, because they certainly don't look like your photo Michael!
 
I'm happy to report that after seeing taillights in person, I don't think I could mis-ID them again. I was probably seeing what I wanted to see a bit as well
 
Joshua, your Pteronotropis look like sailfins rather than flagfins. Absolutely gorgeous amazing fish still though. Though I have only limited experience from catching them this past winter (and studying on them a lot) I think if you want to find flagfins, you'll probably need to find smaller water. Where I was catching flagfins the creeks were 6-8 feet across at most. And we collected at a stream a few hundred yards away that was larger and found only sailfins, no flagfins.
 
Your sucker looks like an Erimyzon and considering how different it looks than any that I've ever seen, I have to suspect it's a Sharpfin Chubsucker (though I've yet to see one in person). Glad you found some fish!

They could be Coastal Shiners. I was just going of the rectangle on the tailfin. What I caught also didn't look anything like Michael's photo.

I'm pretty sure I have Flagfins. Maybe I wasn't clear but I caught them in the second location, a small creek off the Yellow River. There are a few photos of the creek in that album.

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[Evan P]

Wow Michael, your Weed Shiner picture looks nothing at all like the weeds up here. Very weird.

[Josh Blaylock]

After looking at some pics of Coastal Shiners, I think that is what I was catching. They had that blue hue to the lateral line area.

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[gerald]

I'd guess Coastal or Dusky shiner, if dusky occurs in that area

[Doug_Dame]

 

The missing Pteronotropis, the one that Dick Stober used to catch and sell in his shop so long ago? Yes, I'm sure it exists. Others have reportedly caught the rare and elusive "Scarlet Sailfin," but since 9-11 it's been mighty hard to get anywhere near them. I searched for quite awhile, but kept getting caught by Game Wardens and Air Force types. I certainly hope that someday someone does find them again and get them to the right people for proper description. When that happens, I'd suggest the name "Shalimar Shiner"; Pteronotropis stoberi. ( I used to advocate the name P. eglini, but those Eglin AFB guys have been so darned unhelpful and hostile that they don't deserve it. Dick Stober discovered them, so he deserves it.  )

 

 

 

Just seeing this thread, haven't been on the board in a while. 

 

In 2012, David Smith of Mobile AL and Philip Kukulski of Michigan received permission to collect Pteronotropis within the (extensive) bounds of Eglin Air Force Base. After a mandatory safety & rules review session, we headed to our primary target location, and immediately found (what I assume is) the mythical Pteronotropis "eglini." 

 

Very nice fish.

 

I have a decent in-hand photo, but can't figure out how to just upload and attach it. If you could see it, you would see: 

* mucho (solid) dark orange/ref red in the tail and belly fins, unlike any other Ptero's I've seen ... (and it seemed redder to the eye than this px captures),

* a very broad dark black-black side stripe,

* fairly strong black "fillin" between the rays on the dorsal fin,

* a distinct and squarish extension of the side stripe into the tail,

* 6 or 7 of the central tail rays are dark and extend all the way to the back edge of the tail, and

* a hint of two orange spots at the base of the tail, one above and one below the black spot. 

 

One of the guys sent specimens to Jason Allen, who with the help of David and Philip (and others) had fairly recently done a lot of Pt. collecting throughout most of the Pteronotropis range, in support of his dissertation, but had not managed to collect at Eglin AFB.

 

Jason ID'd the fish as a population of Pt. grandipinnis. I believe but am not sure that he did so based on DNA comparisons with the other Pt populations he had sampled. 

 

If it ever gets elevated to species status, Pt. stoberi would be a most fitting name.

 

Philip has bred them, although I don't know if he's kept them long-term.

 

(About to head to Georgia for a NANFA fish demo arranged by the ever-busy NANFA rep/ambassador Michael Wolfe. Will try to upload the photo again after I get back home.  Edit: I may have figured it out.)

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[Dustin]

That's a beautiful fish Doug. I miss Dick Stober. It's good to hear that David is still getting out. It's been a while since we've been in contact.