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darters sensitivity?


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#41 Leo1234

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  • san clemente, california

Posted 16 September 2015 - 07:20 AM

If it is a water quality issue how often and how much should I do for each water change? I would change a lot of the water to see if that might help, but I don't want to kill too much bacteria. How hard should the water be? My water has a very high hardness. 

Edit: I just tested and these are the results:

Nitrate 20ppm
nitrite: 0ppm
Hardness ~300ppm
Chlorine 0ppm
High alkalinity
PH  between 7.8 and 8.4



#42 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 07:33 AM

That all looks fine. Insect repellent or pesticides a possibility?


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#43 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 07:34 AM

Stray voltage from a filter or powerhead?


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#44 littlen

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 07:56 AM

Ammonia results?  


Nick L.

#45 littlen

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 08:03 AM

Matt--my thoughts on a toxin (like a pesticide, or the likes) would have been that it would have killed all of the fish much closer to one another than having spaces in between the death events where nothing died.  I know you're just trying to think of all possibilities.  Definitely hard for all of us to diagnose mysterious fish deaths without knowing all the factors.  I once lost a bunch of fish after a large W/C because I didn't dose enough dechlor after my local water authority nuked the system with chlorimines.  Happens to the best of us.


 


Nick L.

#46 Leo1234

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 08:13 AM

I got 0ppm ammonia.
Should I do a major water change? should I use more dechlor than recommended? I really don't know what is going on. I agree on the toxin, but what would it be? Why would all my plants, snails, and clam all do great, but not my fish?



#47 littlen

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:34 AM

Obviously something that doesn't affect them.  The same way we drink chlorine in our water, yet it is toxic to fish.  Whatever IT is, isn't bothersome to inverts and plants.  Hate to say it, but might be worth redoing your tank if you can't figure out what's going on.


Nick L.

#48 littlen

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:37 AM

Additional water changes are a moot point at this juncture.  With what you're able to test for, your results are coming up in acceptable ranges.  I'm sure you've flushed enough water through your tank to remove any toxin that may have accidentally dropped in there.  Add some new carbon to your filters, and invest in some Poly Filter Pads.  Those bad boys seem to be able to absorb lots of bad stuff (heavy metals, etc).  If after that, you add new fish and they drop off, then I'd say start over.


Nick L.

#49 Leo1234

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:38 AM

I guess I will redo the aquarium. What should I change? Could I just do a large water change? I might have to wait until the time I have off from school unless I can do a 1 day change. I also don't know where to put the fish.

Edit: I have some stuff like that already... I think it might be best to change the aquarium. Could it be the driftwood? I bought it at a fish store, but I didn't have time to boil the wood. I also need the ammonia remover thing I have. it turned from white to brown. I forgot what it is called.



#50 Leo1234

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 11:40 AM

I think I know what is going on. I have slate in my aquarium that I got from outside. The gardener that comes every Saturday sprays weed killer in the back yard. The weed killer might have stayed on there before I got the rocks into the aquarium. The only problem with this theory is that I always wash the rocks off before use. I do think some dirt was left over on the rock though.

I have used the slate before and when I did use it I did lose darters and some other fish. I wonder if it has to do with the slate. The darters that I lost that time had scrapes on their side. A couple of the fish did have something similar. This time only some of the fish had the scrapes on them. I took out the slate. If I lose fish after that, then I know it wasn't the slate.

What should I do if it is a pesticide or something similar. 

Here is a list of chemicals people have sprayed or used near my aquarium, etc.:
Herbicide: sprayed near slate. Most likely got washed off
Windex: because my house cleaners don't realize that it could kill my fish even though I have told them many times not to clean my aquarium glass
Insect spray: Basically an organic spray for ants (have hundreds at this time of year)
soap: washing the floor.
forgot the rest

I hate that these are used since my pets (fish and beetles) are sensitive to chemicals.

My buckets that I use for my aquariums are kept outside... so they might have picked up something too.



#51 Leo1234

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:06 PM

So their symptoms are: health declines in 1-4 hours, loss of ability to swim, heavy breathing, seizures occasionally, scrapes occasionally, loss of color

Possible causes: Slate, chemicals, driftwood, or something else



#52 Josh Blaylock

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:48 PM

I had an office aquarium poisoned by Terminex. I feel like you are getting toxins/chemicals in from somewhere, based on my experience.

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#53 gerald

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 10:42 AM

Slate is somewhat porous and may have absorbed pesticides that you cant easily wash off.  Howver, as Nick says, its odd that the fish are affected a few at a time, and quickly, rather than all at once and/or slowly.  Seems unlikely that pesticide poisoning from the slate could do that.  I'm baffled.


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Hangin' on the Neuse
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#54 littlen

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:22 PM

Leo, I know it seems overwhelming but it might be worth starting over with new furniture,....rocks, driftwood.  Collect some from a more pristine area than your front yard to hopefully be away from areas where sprays and toxins are prevalent.  Even if your slate and driftwood is not the culprit, you can certainly eliminate them from the equation if the problem occurs in the future.  It's not worth subjecting additional fish to a known system where they are dying for some unknown reason.  You did well supplying us with info, but we all seem to be stumped.  


Nick L.

#55 Leo1234

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:28 PM

I removed the slate and driftwood yesterday. I have yet to lose a fish since. I know it has been only ~24 hours, but I want to see how it goes for the next 3 days and if I lose any of my healthy fish I will start over. 



#56 Leo1234

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 10:15 AM

So far I have only lost my 2 striped shiners and 1 of them died from going between the filter and the glass. The other one I'm not sure how he died. I added 10 fathead minnows on Thursday and so far I have not lost any. I think it was the slate. I think the aquarium has improved a lot since I removed the slate.



#57 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 01:29 PM

Keep in mind that purchased fatheads may not be healthy in the first place, so avoid jumping to conclusions if some do die.


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#58 Leo1234

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 08:09 AM

Could it be fungal? I have noticed that every so often one of the fish might develop white, fuzzy patches 1-2 days before they die. This rarely happens and most of the dead fish don't show this sigh before or after. Also when they can't swim, they spin head down and try to swim sideways. I just lost one dace and golden shiner. If I see any new symptoms, I will post them.



#59 gerald

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 08:26 AM

The fuzz you're seeing (could be fungus, bacteria, or both) is usually a secondary problem, attacking fish that are already weakened by something else.  Fungus is rarely the primary cause of disease, although bacteria certainly can be.  Some bacteria infections can look like fungus -- e.g. "mouth fungus" or "fin rot"  which are often symptoms of the bacteria Flexibacter (Columnaris) or others. 


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#60 Leo1234

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 08:41 AM

I might just put my fish into the 33 gallon. I'm thinking of redoing my 150 gallon aquarium and maybe doing a solo fish aquarium. What native would be ok by itself? I was thinking of going with a bass of some sort. If not, then I'm going to get a lungfish instead of a native and keep my 33 native. One reason I'm thinking of having a solo aquarium is because it would be easier to keep and cost less to maintain..






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