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Help with this sunfish.


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#41 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:25 AM

Here is a young green sunfish, they are much more colorful at this size, and resemble the hybrid with a warmouth.

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#42 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:26 AM

Here is an adult, it is a bit melanistic, but more typical of an adult green sunfish. Notice the markings on the face, versus the ones posted, and the next picture I will put up of anothe warmouth green hybrid.

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#43 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:27 AM

One last eye candy for tonight, another warmouth green hybrid. Sorry about the smears on the glass, but the fish shows up well enough I think.

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#44 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:37 AM

Why don't you think hybrids are "as common as we think"? Here is one sent to me by a guy, who thinks its a redbreast crossed with a longear. I guess one or the other was common in that stretch of river, and then the one was stocked, now most of the fish found look like this. Above the dam the native specie still looks the same. Its been two years since I got this picture and forget the actual details.

You can see the longear traits pretty clear, all the color for one. But the ear is long without a border, and the colors are just too gaudy for it to be one or the other.

I have been meaning to get some pictures of the pair of redspotted green sunfish hybrids I have. Last year I had one male redspotted sunfish. He pretty much dominated the spawning area in the pond, and was spawning with green sunfish. I had tons of them. You can view some pictures taken by someone Mark knows at Jonah's, as I sent him a few of them last fall. See those pictures here: http://www.jonahsaqu...sxcyanellus.htm

They are pretty small, just over an inch. The pair I have left from all of them ( the rest ended up being polypterus, gar, and monitor lizard food) are spawning, but the fry die shortly after hatching. I have to get pictures of them for someone, so they will be coming shortly.

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#45 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:43 AM

Here is another one I forgot I had on disk. This is a longear redbreast hybrid sent to me from the Chatanooga area. I called it an eartheater sunfish because of the strange body shape. Hmm, I don't know if this one is going to work or not, I will submit and see.

#46 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:07 AM

OK, sorry about all these posts, but I figure the pictures make up for them> :D

I don't think hybrids are all that common, just that in certain select areas they occur regularly. Especially if you fill a pond with males of one species and females of another. I have a report from IL , I think the University of Champaign Ubrana that made it. It has nice color pictures of the various hybrids they created in their test ponds.

Alright, now I think the picture came up ok, it was too big before, and that is the best I could do to shrink it size down.

You can see in the picture its odd shaped mouth, why I gave it the name earthearter after the SA cichlids. It used its mouth quite well to pick things off the rocks in the aquarium, and sift through gravel which is when I first noticed its odd structure.

In this younger fish the colors are not exaggerated like in the last megaXauritus I posted. But the coloration is odd for a longear. The ear seems to have a well defined border though. It also has nice pelvic fin extensions.

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#47 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:19 AM

I lied, here is another picture of a hybrid bluegill and an orangespot.

I gave this fish to a friend who wanted a bigger fish for his large tank in the living room that was home to a monster bullhead for years, until it died.

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#48 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 12:13 AM

That is a hybrid. Looks like some bluegill in there and maybe some longear? Short ear flap= bluegill or green sunfish. Body pattern reminiscent of longear. White edging on fins is like green sunfish.

#49 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 01:14 AM

Here is another hybrid that I caught out of the same lake.


I definately would agree with choupique that this looks like a warmouth green hybrid, to me the warmouth in it is quite easy to see. Natural warmouth hybrids seem rare but I have found a couple of fish that appear suspect in the past of being part warmouth. One such fish very similar to this from leesville lake in ohio that I considered a warmouth green hybrid.

#50 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 01:28 AM

That is a hybrid. Looks like some bluegill in there and maybe some longear? Short ear flap= bluegill or green sunfish. Body pattern reminiscent of longear. White edging on fins is like green sunfish.



Oh, I guess I don't know how to do this yet. I was referring to the first fish that originated this thread.

#51 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 11:08 PM

Oh, I guess I don't know how to do this yet. I was referring to the first fish that originated this thread.

Don't listen to this hybrid stuff, Mark! And don't perpetuate it.

#52 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 02:11 AM

I just have to know.

Irate, what is the problem with hybrids? :-k

If hybrids are figments of our imaginations, what are these fish in these pictures? What are tiger muskies and wipers that are stocked for fishing? What is that monster called a bloodred parrot cichlid?

Or is this another one of your things like " and it will die". :D

#53 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 02:19 AM

They're hybrids! Hybrids I tells ya! All hybrids! Dad gum half breed mongrels! They're beauties though! Love those hybrids! Hybrids I tells ya! All hybrids! Hybrids!!! ](*,)

#54 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 05:12 PM

I just have to know.

Irate, what is the problem with hybrids? :-k

If hybrids are figments of our imaginations, what are these fish in these pictures? What are tiger muskies and wipers that are stocked for fishing? What is that monster called a bloodred parrot cichlid?

Or is this another one of your things like " and it will die". :D


The deal with me is that the various Lepomis spp. are highly variable - we've all observed this. But the first thing anybody says when a picture of an atypical fish is posted, is "It's some kind of strange hybrid! Yeah!!". Now I'm not denying that hybrids exist, but I think a lot of the fish people are calling hybrids are just Lepomis "with a difference". Honestly. Cyprinella venusta is a highly variable species, but where are all the pics of venusta x lutrensis hybrids? People just shrug their shoulders and say "that's a funny venusta". Centrarchids are large, charismatic fishes, and individual differences in them are readily observed, and most of us are familiar with how a "regular" bluegill looks. So when we see something different, here we go with HYBRID mania...

Just look at how many pics in the forum have been called by hybrids by somebody or another. A person would think there is no such thing as a purebred longear any more! Sacre bleu!

#55 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 09:11 PM

I agree that most of the Lepomis are highly variable as you move across the country. However, where I am from (Ohio) you see Lepomis all the time. After a while, you learn the extent of variation of each of the species. Then when you find a hybrid, you're like, "hey, that doesn't look right!" Kind of looks halfway like this and halfway like that. I have to tell you, I'll be a mole rat's mistress if I haven't seen at least six different Lepomis hybrids in my collecting. And I've received fish from others that were identified as, and clearly looked like hybrids. One of which was a tank spawned cross of cyanellus and miniatus. Not much doubt it was a hybrid, since the guy only had those two individuals in the tank. Here's a fish from west KY that I think is a hybrid, though I'm not ready to call it, since I don't feel I know all the color forms in that area. Notice how the scales are outlined in blue? I think I heard Ray Wolffe say once that that was indicative of a hybrid. And I have been watching longears for this trait. Has anyone else observed that scale outlining in longears or other species of Lepomis?


Here's a link to photos of the L cyanellus x L miniatus hybrids, they are juveniles, about 2.5 inches:

http://jonahsaquariu...sxcyanellus.htm

By the way, I have offspring from that funky west KY "longear". I'm anxious to see how their color turns out. Their mother was a fish, that I took to be a pure longear, from the same collection site and date.

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#56 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 11:29 PM

So I know you said your not ready to call this for sure a hybrid but if you were what would your guess be? Not knowing what other species are around... if there are dollar sunfish around I would say dollar x longear but maybe there are no dollar's in the area. I too agree that there are a lot of hybrid lepomis out there and have found quite a few in Ohio. The most common seems to be the blugill x green sunfish which are quite often produced in hatcheries on purpose. Honestly I think that the debate about what kind of mix a hybrid lepomis might be is just as fun if not more so than actually catching it.

#57 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:04 AM

I'll be a mole rat's mistress


There is such an animal as a mole rat?! Well, I'll be. I'll be a Burrowing Bass if all these hybrids really are...

#58 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:40 AM

Thanks Irate for clarifying.

You sure hit on something that is not mentioned much. Those who see the fish all the time, the variations are known as remarked on by itsme. At the same time, people who just hit their one favorite spot, will think that all X species of fish look like the ones they catch. However, even with this "small world view", when they catch something that is not a pure species X, they will see it.

Also mentioned, trying to figure out these mysteries is a blast. I will be the first to admit, I was stumped by that bluespotted photo a while back. Thought it was a warmouth blue hybrid. HAHAHA :oops: When I found out that this very large clear picture was of a tiny blue, it all came to me.

Fish in hand, seeing these things is much easier than looking at a photo.

Oh, and here is how it works for me. Looking at the last photo of that sunfish. Dang if I didn't see an eastern strain of dollar sunfish first, but like those magic eye books, suddenly it just looks like a strange longear. So I had to refocus and look through the picture, and it came back out. See some red in the lateral line area too there....

#59 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:54 AM

Forgot to mention, it is a long salty swim for an eastern strain dollar to get to KY. :-D There is a longear I call the bayou longear. I have caught these in TN and LA. They live more like dollars in still murky water. They are colored much like this fish. I don't remember if the blue outlined the scales like that.

Go upland a bit in TN from the Reelfoot Lake area, and the longears look just like the ones you catch in streams in the southern two thirds of IL. Go further east, and their color gets brighter, the same in KY. This maybe is what Irate hit on with variation through geography.

I have not had the chance, or really the want, to mix these various forms of longear to see what happens. Or just spawning them all for a few generations all in my system to see if they start looking more alike. Something for some of you other sunfish nuts to try sometime. Or , hopefully I will get around to it possibly....so many things to do, so little time.

Right now I am hoping to conquer mud suns, and crack the code to keeping blackbandeds alive more easily. I am getting to the point that the blackbanded sunfish is not the poor mans angelfish, but the poor mans discus. picky picky picky little beasts. I think that rather than genetics, my receding hair line can be linked to keeping blackbands.




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