Where do I get darters from?

So if I were in Illinois and caught a darter in my net, I would have to put it back. But, If I had a piece of shrimp on a tiny little hook and caught it, I could keep it?

So if I were in Illinois and caught a darter in my net, I would have to put it back. But, If I had a piece of shrimp on a tiny little hook and caught it, I could keep it?

That is correct.

Why is IL so protective of its non-game species?

I'm not so sure the state was being protective of non-game fishes. My bet would the usual SNAFU of bureaucracy.

So if I were in Illinois and caught a darter in my net, I would have to put it back. But, If I had a piece of shrimp on a tiny little hook and caught it, I could keep it?

I'm not so sure. The limitation appears to be under the topic of baitfish, therefore if you are not using the darter for bait this section of code does not prevent your keeping it. There may be some other section that does just that but this section doesn't appear to address collecting darters for aquariums at all.

Very sorry to be the party pooper (not kidding) but............
Minnows are Cyprinids in this state and nothing else (not even Catostomids). A bait shop that sells sucker as bait is in violation of the law believe it or not and people cannot collect sucker as bait either.

This section of code does not say only minnows can be collected by net it says that only minnows can be collected "for bait" with nets. Whether intentional or not it doesn't specifically address fish for aquariums. To make it say that is kind of like saying that because a speed limit sign on a residential st is set for 35 m/hr then if you are on an umarked rural rd you can only go 35.

Once you figure out if you can or can't collect darters, heres how we do it. This works best with 2 or more people. Set the seine or dip net at the bottom of ripple in the stream so it will catch anything that goes downstream. Then start turning rocks and stuff upstream of the net. Anything that was hiding under the rocks will most likely wash downstream into your waiting net. This is a good way to get madtoms too. I dont think Ive ever seined a darter the traditional way.

In VA, we are allowed to take "non-game fish", which is defined as not being a game fish or able to be caught by hook-n-line.

Same here in WV, thank goodness!

Once you figure out if you can or can't collect darters, heres how we do it. This works best with 2 or more people. Set the seine or dip net at the bottom of ripple in the stream so it will catch anything that goes downstream. Then start turning rocks and stuff upstream of the net. Anything that was hiding under the rocks will most likely wash downstream into your waiting net. This is a good way to get madtoms too. I dont think Ive ever seined a darter the traditional way.

Isn't a seine net the same as saying a net? I've been wanting to do what you mentioned, but trying to catch hellgramites.

I've caught darters by keeping them focused on your hand in front of them, while your net is behind them. Move your hand quickly toward the fish along with the net. Doesn't work that good with bigger darters

Anyway, I'm glad that Rainbow darters are a dime a dozen here. I can find them just about anywhere I go, mostly with shiners and northern hog suckers. I would like to find other types of darters though.

Isn't a seine net the same as saying a net?

No. There are other types of nets: dipnets, cast nets, etc. Many people here use dipnets, in addition to, or instead of, seines.

The redundancy is not in referring to a net as a "seine", but in referring to a seine as a "net". It is sufficient to say "seine", and unnecessarily redundant to say "seine net". But the use of the word "net" alone does not imply a seine.

Take a look at Jonah's Aquarium in the "Commercial Vendors" section of the forum to see some types of nets that are commonly used in the hobby.

No. There are other types of nets: dipnets, cast nets, etc. Many people here use dipnets, in addition to, or instead of, seines.

The redundancy is not in referring to a net as a "seine", but in referring to a seine as a "net". It is sufficient to say "seine", and unnecessarily redundant to say "seine net". But the use of the word "net" alone does not imply a seine.

Take a look at Jonah's Aquarium in the "Commercial Vendors" section of the forum to see some types of nets that are commonly used in the hobby.

Yeah, I know about the different types of nets, but a net is a net (I just turned a old seine net into a massive dipnet). I wouldn't take the chance of using a seine type net if the law doesn't specify which is legal. Anyway, I kind of took his post the wrong way.

Yeah, I know about the different types of nets, but a net is a net (I just turned a old seine net into a massive dipnet). I wouldn't take the chance of using a seine type net if the law doesn't specify which is legal. Anyway, I kind of took his post the wrong way.

I read the West Virginia regs a while back, expecting that I might collect there someday (it's not very far from Pittsburgh), although I have not yet done so. A seine of maximum size 6' long x 4' high is permissible.

You can download the full West Virginia fishing regulations from this web page:
http://www.wvdnr.gov...ng/fishing.shtm

For a direct download:
http://www.wvdnr.gov...SHregs07Web.pdf

You can read specifically about dipnetting and seining here:
http://www.wvdnr.gov...erMethFish.shtm

Some excerpts:

Dipping
Dipping for nongame fish is legal from February 1 to midnight April 30 with a valid WV fishing license. A dip net may not exceed thirty-six (36) square feet in overall area, and its mesh may not be smaller than one-fourth (1/4) inch.

Seining for Minnows - Minnow Traps
Game fish may not be seined or trapped. A seine may be used to obtain minnows for use as bait provided the seine is not longer than six (6) feet nor deeper than four (4) feet. A thrownet may be used provided the diameter is no larger than six (6) feet and mesh size no larger than three-eighths (3/ inch. Minnow traps may be used provided the openings are not larger than one (1) inch in diameter. A person may have in his possession no more than 50 minnows nor more than a total of 100 aquatic animal life unless obtained from a licensed dealer and a bill of sale is provided. Possession of mussels or any parts thereof is prohibited. A valid WV fishing license is needed to collect minnows and other aquatic life.

Game fish are listed here, which is an excerpt from the main fishing regulations document:
http://www.wvdnr.gov...ntification.pdf

From that publication:
Game Fish Defined: The following are game fish - bluegill, black bass (largemouth, smallmouth, spotted), rock bass, striped bass, white bass, channel catfish, flathead catfish, chain pickerel, crappie, muskellunge, northern pike, sauger, brook trout, brown trout, golden rainbow trout, rainbow trout, walleye, other sunfish and all game fish hybrids.

So, you can use a seine year-round to collect any fish not on that list. But you can only use a dipnet in the Months of February, March, and April.

I've read that before, and I think it's weird. I can collect a lot more minnows by using a seine compared to a dipnet. I don't see why it's not legal to use a dipnet all year, and why a seine is.

The rock tumbling works good with a dip net if you have a narrow part of the creek and a flat bottom of the creek. A little depth helps too because the steel on the bottom of my dip nets is pretty thick because of the net guard.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

[i]Dipping
Dipping for nongame fish is legal from February 1 to midnight April 30 with a valid WV fishing license. A dip net may not exceed thirty-six (36) square feet in overall area, and its mesh may not be smaller than one-fourth (1/4) inch.

...this doesn't refer to using a small dipnet like we use to get small "baitfish"; dipping is a means of getting suckers during the spring spawning run by suspending a big (up to 6x6') large-mesh net from a long lever on the bank; you drop the net to the bottom and periodically lift the net via lever.

I've seen this done on a stream in the Little Kanawha drainage up in NW West Virginia. It was surprisingly effective. I couldn't find any websites with pics of this activity, but a quick google search suggests that it is also at least locally used in Wisconsin...

cheers,
Dave

Well that would seem to clear that up. I thought it odd, too. So now the question is, is a dipnet legal in WV? The regs specifically allow the use of a seine, they don't mention a dipnet (in our usual sense) assuming that daveneely's explanation is correct (and I believe him). It says a seine of maximum size of 6' x 4'. Is is safe to assume that a dipnet (in our usual sense) is legal, so long as it is no bigger than this? Or do we need to stick with a seine, if we live in or travel to WV, to stay on the safe side?

It is interesting that you mention the Little Kanawha drainage, Dave. I was thinking that I should like to explore West Virginia sometime, and thinking I might like to start there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...
...this doesn't refer to using a small dipnet like we use to get small "baitfish"; dipping is a means of getting suckers during the spring spawning run by suspending a big (up to 6x6') large-mesh net from a long lever on the bank; you drop the net to the bottom and periodically lift the net via lever.

Damn, I've been doing it all wrong! No WONDER my arms are so sore!

--
Irate "Maximum Allowable Net Size" Mormon

The question is, where don't you find darters?

I have a few holding tanks with rainbows, iowas, johnny's, unidentifieds, fantails, etc. If your interested in trading, etc. just let me know. I can only manage flat rate shipping, but they're here
(all have been in my tanks for about a month or so, I have a few captive-bred rainbows also)

I would love to get some Darters for my tank. 6 would be great. What do you have available?

I too would be interssted in greensides/rainbows pm me and if it's ok with the rents we could maybe work thingss out.


I don't want to pay 20$ per fish like I've seen on the vendors.

I too would be interssted in greensides/rainbows pm me and if it's ok with the rents we could maybe work thingss out.
I don't want to pay 20$ per fish like I've seen on the vendors.

I do not charge 20 bucks per fish. No vendor besides BTdarters charges that, and he does not even charge that for all his fish. I assume BTdarters charges more for his difficult to collect fish.If you cannot collect your own, then any of the vendors prices are pretty reasonable.