Blue colored Bluegills?

Hello, new forum member here. I have been catching blue colored bluegills in a creek that borders my property. I was curious if anyone has any info about these misfits? Here's a pic of one I caught yesterday.



And a pic of one I caught last week.


Thanks,

Jeremy

The fish you have appear to have a heavy trematode infection as made evident by the numerous small spots. The fish look kind of chunky for bluegill. Could you photograph some in a tank under less brilliant conditions?

The small one in the middle with all the black spot also seems to have a sunken belly, something I wouldn't expect at this time of year. Maybe stressed in some way? Heavy parasite load?
On the other hand, they may just be spawned out females that have lost their breeding coloration.

Have the sunfishes started spawning Ohio? Our crappies are just now starting in Missouri.

Have the sunfishes started spawning Ohio? Our crappies are just now starting in Missouri.

Good point. I guess they're not on beds yet here. I suppose Ohio is similar in season to here.

Those are weird looking. Look like bluegills, kind of. We have caught some purplish ones in NE Ohio, but not really like that. Would be interesting to see some more examples of fish at different life stages and different times of the year. Is this a very small, isolated pond? What other species are present?

Here's a photo on Farmer Todd's site:
http://farmertodd.co...PurpleColor.htm

That was this trip:
http://farmertodd.com/nanfa/101202/

I have to come out and say it. They look like black spotted sunfish Lepomis punctatus.

Coloration not right but overall body conformation and opercular tabs with membranous outer edge. Red spotted sunfish at your latitude in Ohio I think would typical like those in northern Indiana and northern Illinois.

Is "red spotted sunfish" a described species? I know that L. punctatus is a Gulf and Atlantic slope species, definitely not in Ohio.

Is "red spotted sunfish" a described species? I know that L. punctatus is a Gulf and Atlantic slope species, definitely not in Ohio.

Red spotted sunfish Lepomins miniatus. Separated out from spotted about 10 or 15 years ago. Natural range yes with spotted. Red spotted in gulf drainages from extreme NW Florida though Texas. Supposed intergrade zone in Florida.

Natural range of extant populations for both species not considered to include Ohio.

I have learned not to take range maps too seriously, especially when determining taxonomic ID.

Ranges not always natural if we consider human intervention un-natural.

Edited by centrarchid, 17 May 2008 - 05:33 PM.

Those are weird looking. Look like bluegills, kind of. We have caught some purplish ones in NE Ohio, but not really like that. Would be interesting to see some more examples of fish at different life stages and different times of the year. Is this a very small, isolated pond? What other species are present?

Here's a photo on Farmer Todd's site:
http://farmertodd.co...PurpleColor.htm

That was this trip:
http://farmertodd.com/nanfa/101202/

The large eye deal typical of stunted bluegill. Fast growers have smaller eye diameter : length ratio than slow growers.

Oh, I see my confusion; "red spotted" vs. "redspotted" threw me off, I'm too literal minded. We've all seen, of course, that people do dumbass things like move species into new ranges, so who knows what the story is with Jeremy's fish. I agree that the fish seem to be a "spotted sunfish" of whatever origin, and not bluegills.

Oh, I see my confusion; "red spotted" vs. "redspotted" threw me off, I'm too literal minded. We've all seen, of course, that people do dumbass things like move species into new ranges, so who knows what the story is with Jeremy's fish. I agree that the fish seem to be a "spotted sunfish" of whatever origin, and not bluegills.

redspotted correct term but seems cumbersome. Also black spotted versus blackspotted when spotted sometimes only common name used for that species.

I only have one aquarium right now, and that is occupied by my pumpkinseed. I don't want to risk any kind of disease or parasites getting into my aquarium, so more photos of one of these mutant blue fish in an aquarium environment is kind of out of the question. These fish came from the creek that borders my property, and is a tributary to the Mahoning river. This creek is cut off from the Mahoning though by Deer Creek Reservoir. They are not spawning yet, but the crappie are wearing spawning colors. I have never seen this blue color anywhere else, other than in this creek ever. Other Lepomis species present (that I can document) are normal Bluegills, Pumpkinseeds, and Green Sunfish.
I catch these Blue ones during pre-spawn and the spawning period. They are common enough that I catch them every year, but after the spawn is over I don't seem to catch them anymore. I'm still really curious as to what these blue fish really are, are they just bluegills with something like the Blue rone gene or are they something entirely different.

Here is a pic of a normal bluegill from the creek for comparison. In the second pic of the Blue fish you can see the mostly faded vertical bars typical of a Bluegill.



Jeremy

Edited by jkurtz7, 17 May 2008 - 08:51 PM.

I catch these Blue ones during pre-spawn and the spawning period. They are common enough that I catch them every year, but after the spawn is over I don't seem to catch them anymore. I'm still really curious as to what these blue fish really are, are they just bluegills with something like the Blue rone gene or are they something entirely different.

I'd have to say something entirely different, and I suspect Centrarchid agrees with me.

I catch these Blue ones during pre-spawn and the spawning period. They are common enough that I catch them every year, but after the spawn is over I don't seem to catch them anymore. I'm still really curious as to what these blue fish really are, are they just bluegills with something like the Blue rone gene or are they something entirely different.

I'd have to say something entirely different, and I suspect Centrarchid agrees with me.

It appears to have the dorsal fin blotch typical of a bluegill. Does "something entirely different" (besides green sunfish) get those?

It appears to have the dorsal fin blotch typical of a bluegill. Does "something entirely different" (besides green sunfish) get those?

I do not see the blotch in the dorsal fin in the photographs. I have every sunfish (within Lepomis), each repressented by individuals from throughout native ranges and only the bluegill sunfishes (northern, coppernose, handpaint and southwestern) and the green sunfish exhibit the blotch. The bantam sunfish also has but it stands out in my eyes very easily from the other "Lepomis" and is not likely to reach the size of the animals in question.

I think the fishes in question are either blackspotted or redspotted sunfishes that for some reason are not showing the blue iridescent iris patch below the pupil. My spotted sunfishes of both species when in poor condition drop the blue spot. The fish shown do appear to be heavily parasitized and that may influence pigmentation.

Jeremy,

Can you describe the habitat in and around where those odd fish were collected? The two possibilities I think they are are usually associated with a particular set of habitat characteristics, especially in the northern part of their range. Could you photograph a male on the nest? From above will still be informative.

Jeremy,

Would you be willing to sacrifice one of these fish to look at its gill rakers?

Jeremy,

Can you describe the habitat in and around where those odd fish were collected? The two possibilities I think they are are usually associated with a particular set of habitat characteristics, especially in the northern part of their range. Could you photograph a male on the nest? From above will still be informative.

These fish are caught near woody structure. There really aren't many weeds present in the creek. Our sunfish spawn hasn't happened yet, and the water in this creek is turbid most of the time so getting photo's of fish on beds will be difficult if not impossible for me.
Blackspotted sunnies are not present in Ohio that I am aware of, I've never seen any documentation to suggest that they were ever here.

I will do what I can as far as photo's. Catching these fish is totally a random thing. The next one I catch, I will bring up to the house and find something to put it in so I can photograph it in different lighting conditions.

Jeremy

Jeremy,

Would you be willing to sacrifice one of these fish to look at its gill rakers?

I guess that I could do that, but I have no idea what I'd be looking for.

Jeremy