Blue colored Bluegills?

I noticed that dark spot on end of the dorsal fin too which the bluegill usually have them. I've seen lots of washed out bluegills and pumpkinseed too many in my life.

Take a look here. The first time I saw this, I was using my desktop PC, and this blotch was obvious to me on that monitor. Looking at it on my laptop, it's not as obvious, but I can still see it. I think one's monitor and/or video card can affect how visible the blotch is, but unless there's some other explanation for this... the blotch is there.

If this fish had turned up in my net, it would have been back in the water quicker than I could say "it's just a washed out bluegill". That being said, far more knowledgeable people than I don't seem to agree. When they come to agreement, I'll go with their decision; until then, I'm going with washed out bluegill.

I now see the blotch you speek of. To me it does not exhibit the round outline typical of bluegill, rather it is demarked by a strait line where the rays of the soft dorsal fin branch which I associated with a stressed sunfish attempting to blanch.

Look at the opercular tab of the fish's in question (the grayish ones) and of the typically colored male bluegill in this thread captured by Jeremy. Compare the outer edge to that of other bluegill images you have.

We still need to see gills rakers. Best now if compared from a fish we agree is a bluegill from same collection site and one of the fish in question.

It's a bluegill. I don't see how it could be anything else. I've caught plenty with the washed out colors, usually in the muddy, low oxygen ponds around here. I've also caught bluegill that have markings that resemble black crappie. So I believe that its just another color morph bluegill.

They look okay to me. Not sure what the mystery is, I mean some folks have red hair and others brown, wouldn't fish vary in species, too? They look like blue gills, but I don't know much about it.

You know, this thread makes me uneasy, not because you all are taking euthanizing and pickling and post mortems, but because, they really do look healthy to me. I got a book about fish health/diseases today, and I'd say, even with my glasses on, I can't see what the obvious signs of pathogens the author is talking about in one out of every ten photos. If I'd caught them, I'd be sticking them in my tank.

Yeah, that's the trick, there's always variation in every species; not all dogs are DOGS, not all bluegills are BLUEGILLS, etc. In a group like Lepomis sunfishes individuals of some species can appear similar to one another, and in different locales fish grow differentially in response to local conditions. Just looking at a fish's coloration isn't always informative because it can be a really variable trait. That's why Centrarchid suggests looking at gill rakers and pharyngeal teeth, characters that vary much less within a valid species than color, opercular shape, etc. It involves some disassembly of the fish but would likely decide this debate. Just going from typical snapshot photos, we're going to have debates like this again and again (in spite of our collective better judgement?).

The fish in question may well be bluegills, but Centrarchid and I have separately seen enough bluegills that we have doubts. And I know that Smbass has seen lots of sunfish too and has a well informed opinion based on looking at the same limited evidence. So, we're going nuts trying to ID one of the most ubiquitous fish species across North America. Cynics may think it's much ado about nothing, but they miss the point (fun?) of trying to develop an evidence-based ID from limited information.

We could just call them all "bream" like most people here in 'bama, but, I mean,....

You make a great point Bruce that should not be understated, this is purely fun for us to debate and certainly not something any of us with some experience actually would let become anything more than just a fun debate. I just felt this should be clear to the people watching this thread with interest...

I still say they are 100% bluegill and I am sticking to it, and it seems I am getting more fellow fish heads on my side...

I still say they are 100% bluegill and I am sticking to it, and it seems I am getting more fellow fish heads on my side...

Yeah, well five of my students of fishes who have not even seen the evidence agree with me!

You make a great point Bruce that should not be understated, this is purely fun for us to debate and certainly not something any of us with some experience actually would let become anything more than just a fun debate.

Well shucks. I'm still hoping for a Lepomis ID Cage Match at the Texas convention.

I've been look at blackspotted sunfish pics on interent and in North America freshwater fishes books and they do not match to this blue sunfish. Also I don't see ANY black speckles on its body and where's the black marks on the face as blackspotted have. But Slasher are right about one thing. Blue bluegills are often found in low oxygen muddy waters and I can see the muddy water in the background of the picture. AND the blackspotted sunfish rarely reach more than 6inch long (that's what the books say) and this blue sunfish look too big for blackspotted. Also I cannot find any information about the blackspotted existed in Ohio waterways.

Also I cannot find any information about the blackspotted existed in Ohio waterways.

To some (including myself), the biggest interest in this beyond the identity of the sunfish is that a population of spotted sunfish might be established in Ohio waters. Redspotted sunfish can tolerate the temperature regime of NE Ohio and some populations of blackspotted sunfish could do the same if the are similar in tolerances to sympatric coppernose bluegill. This would be a case of an introduction, rather than an overlooked native population.

I'm not sure where this thread is leading anymore. Blackspotted sunnies keep coming up, but the fact of the matter is, is that there are NO blackspotted sunfish in Ohio and there never were. I'm sure Brian will agree, since he lives here too. Lepomis species in Ohio are, Bluegill, Pumkinseed, Orange-spot, Northern Longear, Central Longear, Green sunfish, and Warmouth. There are Redears too, but those are not native to Ohio. There certainly is variation among fish in the same body of water. I'm getting to the point now that I do believe that my "blue" fish are just washed out bluegills. The section of creek that I live on has mostly turbid slow moving, and at times oxygen poor water. There is also a problem with red sore disease and anchor worm here, so all these factors could in fact cause these fish to be washed out. To tell the truth, I was hoping that these fish would be somehow unique in a good way, like a color morph but, that may not be the case.
Here are more pics of fish from the same creek, they all exhibit individual traits.











Here's a Green Sunfish


Here's a Pumpkinseed in spawning colors


And a pic of the blue fish again for reference


Jeremy

Jeremy,

Could you provide more specific collection locality information? It may be interesting enough for someone else to have a look.

Jeremy,

Could you provide more specific collection locality information? It may be interesting enough for someone else to have a look.

All these fish came from Deer Creek, about a 100 yard stretch of stream.

All these fish came from Deer Creek, about a 100 yard stretch of stream.

And what county, nearest road / bridge or town? The is likely more than one Deer Creek, possibly in the same county.

And what county, nearest road / bridge or town? The is likely more than one Deer Creek, possibly in the same county.

Stark county, there is a road bridge right by my property, it is ST RT 183 that runs over it right here. I live in the village of Limaville, which is near Alliance.

Jeremy

Stark county, there is a road bridge right by my property, it is ST RT 183 that runs over it right here. I live in the village of Limaville, which is near Alliance.

Jeremy

Thanks!

Im sure that they are just normal bluegills. However there are some unique colorations in some populations. There are roan bluegills and hand print ( or was a paint?) bluegills existed.

Im sure that they are just normal bluegills. However there are some unique colorations in some populations. There are roan bluegills and hand print ( or was a paint?) bluegills existed.

Hand paint. Has more than coloration setting it apart.

What's a Hand Paint bluegill?

I'm not sure where this thread is leading anymore. Blackspotted sunnies keep coming up, but the fact of the matter is, is that there are NO blackspotted sunfish in Ohio and there never were. I'm sure Brian will agree, since he lives here too. Lepomis species in Ohio are, Bluegill, Pumkinseed, Orange-spot, Northern Longear, Central Longear, Green sunfish, and Warmouth. There are Redears too, but those are not native to Ohio.

This logic doesn't work: no blackspotted sunfish in OH because they are not native. Redears are in OH but not native. So when the first Redears were found the same could have been said at that time. "There are no Redears in Ohio and there never were." That 's where this thread is going the possibility of introduced Blackspotted sunfish in Ohio. But I agree they are likely bluegill though I can see how the idea of blackspotted came up.