First of all it wasn't just one fish, I've seen this occur in many fish species over the years. a fish in captivity doesn't need the same amount of food as a wild fish. a fish will over eat if given the chance, in the wild they have to eat at every opportunity. In captivity you have control of how much they eat. I've seen this effect in many other fish and three other sharks. The size of a fish is pliable, more food means a bigger fish, less food and the fish will adjust to the food supply by being smaller. This happens in the wild as well. This was the first dwarfed iridescent shark i had kept long term, he was a great fish with lots of personality. His life was cut short by a water bird one summer day. My neighbor told me when I came home from work "there was the most beautiful bird in one of your ponds today, I think he was drinking he kept putting his head in the water!" Of course the bird was eating my fish, but she didn't know that. yes you can grow a fish huge in captivity but it isn't necessary to do this, fish can be small and still enjoy long healthy lives. Over feeding can result in a huge fish that lives a short life due to a build up of fats due to their sedentary life style. If you don't want a paddlefish don't buy one. I don't see any reason that runts and culls from the aquaculture business shouldn't be diverted from the land fill to the petstore.

Many people thinks these tankbusters and paddlefish should not be sold in pet stores because 3/4 of them fell in wrong hands. It is very rare for any tankbusters have second or third home. Im sure lots of people disagree with your theory. Do you just based it from your ID shark and other pets you had in past? I've seen too many tankbuster stories and even with their controlled feeding, they will keeping growing.

Glad that this beautiful bird visiting your pond

Many people thinks these tankbusters and paddlefish should not be sold in pet stores because 3/4 of them fell in wrong hands. It is very rare for any tankbusters have second or third home. Im sure lots of people disagree with your theory. Do you just based it from your ID shark and other pets you had in past? I've seen too many tankbuster stories and even with their controlled feeding, they will keeping growing.

Glad that this beautiful bird visiting your pond

So you think these fish should just be killed and thrown in the land fill? Why is it bad to try and keep these fish instead? Disagreeing doesn't mean it doesn't work, far too many people feel the need to feed their fish all they can eat every day, this is unnatural, fish in the wild seldom eat until they are full every day. In small bodies of water where there is less food you tend to find smaller fish. In an aquarium there is no need to feed fish all they can eat everyday, it pollutes the water and much of the food passes through the fish relatively undigested. many people feel that if a fish doesn't reach it's maximum size then the fish is somehow being mistreated. a smaller fish is better off in an aquarium, just because you can force a fish to it's maximum size in a container doesn't mean the fish is somehow healthier than a fish that stays smaller. No need to force grow fish, feed them small amounts that keep them from getting skinny and they will grow slowly and often stop growing at a much smaller size than their maximum possible size. Yes I have seen this in many species of fish from sunfish to catfish to sturgeon. Just becasue you can grow a giant fish doesn't mean you have to or should.

just because you can force a fish to it's maximum size in a container doesn't mean the fish is somehow healthier than a fish that stays smaller. No need to force grow fish, feed them small amounts that keep them from getting skinny and they will grow slowly and often stop growing at a much smaller size than their maximum possible size. Yes I have seen this in many species of fish from sunfish to catfish to sturgeon. Just becasue you can grow a giant fish doesn't mean you have to or should.

Another way to put this into perspective..
Just because a human can grow to 8 feet tall does not mean all will...

While I can see the points your making Butch and some are very valid, but moontanman is IMO right, even though I dont know if i agree with the growth issue 100%, fish keeping is basically an experiment in biology and ecology and husbandry, we try to recreate habitats that are pleasing for us and the fish. Yes some fish die..probably im guessing 99% of petshop fish dont make it past 1yr if there lucky, most goldfish grow to 1 to 2 feet in length are you standing at petco/petsmart or any other LFS complaining to the people that walk out with 2 goldfish and a bowl? Yes they are very different fish but the same princable applies, just because you dont agree with something doesnt mean it shouldnt be done. I am just starting in the Native fish side, yes I know what I can keep but it isnt your job to tell me what i can or can not buy, even if it dies the amount of information that fish keeper could gather would be well worth the life of a fish that was going to be culled anyway. All scientific success comes from failures.

There are people who are perfectly capable of keeping nearly any sized fish, especially fish that can over winter in ponds. I keep fish in ponds and aquariums. I mostly like small dwarf type fish but some of the big ones fascinate me too. as long as these fish are obtained from captive breed fish i see no reason why we cannot keep fish like sturgeons and paddlefish. having someone who knows these fish and has experience with them is valuable to those of us who want to keep them.

Im sorry if i implied that no one should be able to have these, As i am ALL about having whatever i want, but education is important so that people, that have no clue, or give no forethought to getting a fish like this THEN finding out this thing is gettin too big!!!!, i was fortunate to have someone that was capable of taking my stupid mistake, but how many of this type of fish is now in a lake somewhere in florida, with 1000 other fish that was just tossed out when the owner could no longer care for them

While I can see the points your making Butch and some are very valid, but moontanman is IMO right, even though I dont know if i agree with the growth issue 100%, fish keeping is basically an experiment in biology and ecology and husbandry, we try to recreate habitats that are pleasing for us and the fish. Yes some fish die..probably im guessing 99% of petshop fish dont make it past 1yr if there lucky, most goldfish grow to 1 to 2 feet in length are you standing at petco/petsmart or any other LFS complaining to the people that walk out with 2 goldfish and a bowl? Yes they are very different fish but the same princable applies, just because you dont agree with something doesnt mean it shouldnt be done. I am just starting in the Native fish side, yes I know what I can keep but it isnt your job to tell me what i can or can not buy, even if it dies the amount of information that fish keeper could gather would be well worth the life of a fish that was going to be culled anyway. All scientific success comes from failures.

The growth issue is debatable, I don't think it applies to all fish equally. I feel sure there are fish that is would be difficult to dwarf and keep them healthy then there are other fish that are so plastic they can be be dwarfed to almost any size. I think the old adage that a fish only grows to the size of it's container got started from fish being dwarfed and the people who say this isn't ever true probably do their best to make sure their fish reach some maximum size. I for one simply do not believe in stuffing fish (unless it's for the dinner table like founder stuffed with crab!!) over feeding of fish is not a good idea and it doesn't result in a fish that any better off than a fish that has been fed more conservatively and it can result in an early death for the fish.

So you saying its okay to stunting out fish, just like your 10 inch long ID shark and nature laws don't apply in aquariums. If we did I guess ill feed my dog once a week, just like wolves in the wild and I guess I have to put size limit on my fishes too? I guess I won't see my sunfish to reach 9 inch long. And you say its okay to do same in the aquarium as the nature do, ok then ill threw 20 sunnies in 100 gal to see how they do well.

Again, nature laws don't apply in the aquariums except the breeding in some species until I find good proof that its proven that its healthy for fish and well-researched.

Im sorry if i implied that no one should be able to have these, As i am ALL about having whatever i want, but education is important so that people, that have no clue, or give no forethought to getting a fish like this THEN finding out this thing is gettin too big!!!!, i was fortunate to have someone that was capable of taking my stupid mistake, but how many of this type of fish is now in a lake somewhere in florida, with 1000 other fish that was just tossed out when the owner could no longer care for them

If i no longer want a fish I either give to a responsible person or kill it. We need to remember that all captive fish are already dead as far as the natural world is concerned. I know this is a difficult idea to get across about a pet but when you buy any fish it should be until it dies. I think that is one of the basic tenets we need to make sure everyone agrees on.

So you saying its okay to stunting out fish, just like your 10 inch long ID shark and nature laws don't apply in aquariums. If we did I guess ill feed my dog once a week, just like wolves in the wild and I guess I have to put size limit on my fishes too? I guess I won't see my sunfish to reach 9 inch long. And you say its okay to do same in the aquarium as the nature do, ok then ill threw 20 sunnies in 100 gal to see how they do well.

Again, nature laws don't apply in the aquariums except the breeding in some species until I find good proof that its proven that its healthy for fish and well-researched.

Butch, fish are cold blooded, they can go for long periods of time with out food and do so in nature. Dogs are warm blooded they need to eat more often to fuel their metabolism if you want your sunfish to be 9" long then keep it alone in a 100 gallon tank and fed as much as it will eat every day, keep the water pristine and you will be rewarded with a fish close to it's maximum size. The only size limit you need to put on your fishes is your own. I am not saying you should do what i do I am just saying it's possible and it doesn't harm the fish. Just because i want to limit the size of my fishes it doesn't mean you have to, i just don't think everyone should be told to force grow their fishes all the time. many people seem to think that if a fish doesn't approach some world record size something is wrong, i am just saying this is not true. the size of fish varies with the amount of food, quality of the food, water quality, temperature, and photo period. there probably are other factors as well.

The growth issue is debatable, I don't think it applies to all fish equally. I feel sure there are fish that is would be difficult to dwarf and keep them healthy then there are other fish that are so plastic they can be be dwarfed to almost any size. I think the old adage that a fish only grows to the size of it's container got started from fish being dwarfed and the people who say this isn't ever true probably do their best to make sure their fish reach some maximum size. I for one simply do not believe in stuffing fish (unless it's for the dinner table like founder stuffed with crab!!) over feeding of fish is not a good idea and it doesn't result in a fish that any better off than a fish that has been fed more conservatively and it can result in an early death for the fish.

I like to see my fish to reach 50 to 75% of full size instead of 25% or 100%.

But remember how many thousands of pacus, mega catfish, gar and other tankbusters made to see their subadult size in the aquarium? I doubt nearly all 70 paddlefish will made to the 15 inch long, maybe 5 or 6 made to 20 inch long.

You can do whatever to your fish you want as its not my fish because its not really 100% proof.

Butch, fish are cold blooded, they can go for long periods of time with out food and do so in nature. Dogs are warm blooded they need to eat more often to fuel their metabolism if you want your sunfish to be 9" long then keep it alone in a 100 gallon tank and fed as much as it will eat every day, keep the water pristine and you will be rewarded with a fish close to it's maximum size. The only size limit you need to put on your fishes is your own. I am not saying you should do what i do I am just saying it's possible and it doesn't harm the fish. Just because i want to limit the size of my fishes it doesn't mean you have to, i just don't think everyone should be told to force grow their fishes all the time. many people seem to think that if a fish doesn't approach some world record size something is wrong, i am just saying this is not true. the size of fish varies with the amount of food, quality of the food, water quality, temperature, and photo period. there probably are other factors as well.

In short word, use your common senses and a brain, that's what we need.

If i no longer want a fish I either give to a responsible person or kill it. We need to remember that all captive fish are already dead as far as the natural world is concerned. I know this is a difficult idea to get across about a pet but when you buy any fish it should be until it dies. I think that is one of the basic tenets we need to make sure everyone agrees on.

Exactly...What you said , the only point i was trying to make is.. BEFORE you buy or take that fish from nature or the LFS, we as thinking humans should run through our minds, can i keep this fish in a comfortable, well fed and healthy enviornment, and enjoy having it to study, and yes even relate with, as some of the fish can become very tame and responsive. I understand the kill it part in comparison to putting it back in nature but dont want to accept that as an alternative to continueing the commitment made when you get the fish. If you cant make and keep that in all good faith, THEN DONT TAKE IT HOME

I like to see my fish to reach 50 to 75% of full size instead of 25% or 100%.

But remember how many thousands of pacus, mega catfish, gar and other tankbusters made to see their subadult size in the aquarium? I doubt nearly all 70 paddlefish will made to the 15 inch long, maybe 5 or 6 made to 20 inch long.

You can do whatever to your fish you want as its not my fish because its not really 100% proof.

Butch do you know of anything that is 100% proof? I've seen huge pacus and I've seen smaller ones kept fro the same amount of time. I'd much rather have a smaller fish in a big tank than a huge fish that can hardly turn around in a big tank. Doing as you want is the name of the game to me, I'm just offering a little advice based on my small amount of experience. We all can benefit if we help each other. As I have said before these fish were destined to go the land fill or an aqaurium it really doesn't matter how long they are kept, they were going to die anyway.

Exactly...What you said , the only point i was trying to make is.. BEFORE you buy or take that fish from nature or the LFS, we as thinking humans should run through our minds, can i keep this fish in a comfortable, well fed and healthy enviornment, and enjoy having it to study, and yes even relate with, as some of the fish can become very tame and responsive. I understand the kill it part in comparison to putting it back in nature but dont want to accept that as an alternative to continueing the commitment made when you get the fish. If you cant make and keep that in all good faith, THEN DONT TAKE IT HOME

I agree with you, I've seen far to many people sold an aqaurium full of fish only to find out later that the oscar really doesn't mix well with the neons in a ten gallon tank. So few really responsible people when it comes to selling fish.

Butch do you know of anything that is 100% proof? I've seen huge pacus and I've seen smaller ones kept fro the same amount of time. I'd much rather have a smaller fish in a big tank than a huge fish that can hardly turn around in a big tank. Doing as you want is the name of the game to me, I'm just offering a little advice based on my small amount of experience. We all can benefit if we help each other. As I have said before these fish were destined to go the land fill or an aqaurium it really doesn't matter how long they are kept, they were going to die anyway.

Well said, and aint we all..sooner or later.......but if youre gettin up a load for tonite i think ill pass

LOL! It must took them a long time to realized that their fish can't fit their tank, simple just get bigger tank. I rather see these paddlefish goes to the landfill as its only one-way.

Im rather keep my fish healthy and growing great, instead of dying from stunting effects that's what many people wants for just their pet's health.

Now im done with this debate as I knows that growth debate won't get us anywhere but I knew that paddlefish are horrible home aquarium fish anyways and are going die before their second year.

LOL! It must took them a long time to realized that their fish can't fit their tank, simple just get bigger tank. I rather see these paddlefish goes to the landfill as its only one-way.

What do you mean "it's only one way" I see no difference in keeping stunted runt culls in an aqaurium and simply dumping them in the land fill.

Im rather keep my fish healthy and growing great, instead of dying from stunting effects that's what many people wants for just their pet's health.

I'd rather keep my fish healthy as well, I guess you just ignore anything that doesn't fit your own take on this.

Now im done with this debate as I knows that growth debate won't get us anywhere but I knew that paddlefish are horrible home aquarium fish anyways and are going die before their second year.

Thanks for using your huge bank of experience to set us straight on that. Can I assume that all your fish live past the two year mark?

Is this going anywhere productive tonight or are we turning the corner to personal shots? 50+ replies on an old topic....

What do you mean "it's only one way" I see no difference in keeping stunted runt culls in an aqaurium and simply dumping them in the land fill.



I'd rather keep my fish healthy as well, I guess you just ignore anything that doesn't fit your own take on this.



Thanks for using your huge bank of experience to set us straight on that. Can I assume that all your fish live past the two year mark?

I've take care of my fish very well. I have 4 years old female mosquitofish, 8 years old Kenyi cichlid and 9 years old parrot cichlid. Majority of my fish are just young adults between 2 months to 2 years old. Thank you for being worried about my fish.

Is this going anywhere productive tonight or are we turning the corner to personal shots? 50+ replies on an old topic....

Close it