Pumpkinseed Source?

It would depend on whether it was a pure bluegill or hybrid bluegill. A hybrid would not be any big deal to my customers and wouldn't get much. A pure strain over 2 lbs. could easily get a couple hundred dollars maybe three hundred. 3 lb. plus would be more depending how how big it actually was. I tried being a middle man before and won't do it again due to lack of control over the process.

I believe Bass Pro Shops paid $10,000 once for a really large largemouth?

I am familiar with the over the top prices offered for largemouth bass and catfish for such displays but had no idea bluegill could go for so much. The bluegill I raise to larger sizes are in fact pure (as within the presently recognized species, some pure northern) but the market price you indicate seems too high to support any volume. The market I am targeting is for foodfish with conformation of animals (finnage) not always conserved. Could be though.

Thank you for your warm welcome to the site.

Sorry about that az but lots of guys here are weary of commercializing native fish and might have skipped the part about "broodstock". Honestly I think you have a great idea and pumpkinseed are native to your watershed so I'll help you any way I can. I'd hate to see you forced to use some mystery stock and have an accidental release.

... One female pumpkinseed I believe produces at least 40,000 eggs...

Is that number correct. I find it hard to envision a sunfish nest with 40,000 eggs.

A pseed female is more likely to produce something like 300-400 eggs at a time if I remember correctly, but a male's nest may have more than that because he may spawn with several females in quick succession and wind up with eggs in the thousand(s).

My pumpkinseed females when about 5 to 6 inches long produce 4,000 to 8,000 eggs at a time. A 2.5 incher may produce only 400 eggs. The 40,000 eggs per female seems more consistent with a large bluegill or warmuth. Larger broods in a single nest more likely explained by multiple females depositing eggs in the same nest which they readily do.

My pumpkinseed females when about 5 to 6 inches long produce 4,000 to 8,000 eggs at a time. A 2.5 incher may produce only 400 eggs. The 40,000 eggs per female seems more consistent with a large bluegill or warmuth. Larger broods in a single nest more likely explained by multiple females depositing eggs in the same nest which they readily do.

You are correct. My bad. I assumed they were similar to bluegills. Thanks for the info. Looks like I can add a few more to the pond than my bluegills and get more genetic diversity.

I am familiar with the over the top prices offered for largemouth bass and catfish for such displays but had no idea bluegill could go for so much. The bluegill I raise to larger sizes are in fact pure (as within the presently recognized species, some pure northern) but the market price you indicate seems too high to support any volume. The market I am targeting is for foodfish with conformation of animals (finnage) not always conserved. Could be though.

Large bluegill over a pound are my number one requested fish. I don't even need to list them. I have a waiting list. Bluegills that large are not consistently available as you probably know.




I haven't sold any bluegills yet to Bass Pro Shops but may in the future. My highest price fish to Bass Pro Shops so far has been large yellow perch to over 15 inches. They also have a hard time finding large smallmouth bass.

If one has enough contacts, sells fish over large enough of an area, and is the only one doing so, one doesn't need or want very high volume. Less labor involved with lower volume and the price more than makes up for it.

Good luck with food fish. You must provide high volume on a regular interval and compete with commercial fisherman if you grow out your fish. It can be tough! If you produce your own fish you must do some creative growth increases and decreases to keep a uniform size of fish going out on a regular interval or do some photoperiod adjustments to create multiple cohorts.

Using yellow perch as an example NO ONE is profitably producing yellow perch in an RAS situation due to high initial capital cost and the high cost of utilities. I see them going out of business on a regular basis. There's a big one for sale in Wisconsin right now. Right now they can't compete with the commerical catch out of Lake Erie although the lakes catches can be cyclical.

Note: The above bluegill ( 1 lb. 3 oz. if I remember right) was not out of one of my ponds but floated to the surface nearly dead on a visit to a friends house and pond in Ohio. We have a running joke that every time I visit him a fish dies. Last time a big yellow perch floated up. Not sure if he wants me to come anymore.

The friend has an interesting way to produce monster bluegills. He collects bluegills from other friend's ponds and places them into a floating cage and feeds trains them on hydrated commercial feed. When he can sex them he releases only males into the pond and continues to feed them. No reproduction but oh does he grow some dandies for his enjoyment at feeding time!

Edited by az9, 15 October 2008 - 07:12 PM.

Sorry about that az but lots of guys here are weary of commercializing native fish and might have skipped the part about "broodstock". Honestly I think you have a great idea and pumpkinseed are native to your watershed so I'll help you any way I can. I'd hate to see you forced to use some mystery stock and have an accidental release.

I understand. And thank you for you help!

Hey az9, welcome to the forum. You may have read my posts on other forums under the name GW.

az9,

How long does it take for you bluegill to excceed 1 pound and what is their starting weight? Are the stocks entirely northern bluegill?

Hey az9, welcome to the forum. You may have read my posts on other forums under the name GW.

Yo GW!

az9,

How long does it take for you bluegill to excceed 1 pound and what is their starting weight? Are the stocks entirely northern bluegill?

Much faster with genetically selected stock that is feed trained vs. bluegills in the wild. Believe it or not in 3 years -- especially if they are brought indoors over the winter for at least one winter. As far as beginning weight I prefer to use length for yoy as it's less problematic for me. Just a few days ago I seined out bluegills from my production pond that were hatched in mid July (planted the pond late as it was tied up with smallmouths that needed to be removed)/ Median size a few days ago was 3 1/2 inches. Biggest shooter was 4 3/4 inches although fish that big were rare. Here's a pic of one:



My stocks are mostly Condello strain Nebraska bluegill that were originally genetically selected for aggressiveness and fast growth by Dr. Bruce Condello in Lincoln, Nebraska. I am continuing the tradition here in Indiana. These would be a good stock to use for food fish as they grow faster than typical bluegill stocks.

This fish was only 54 weeks old.



Here's are some pictures of some of his broodstock, which he has grow to over 2 lbs. Note the body confirmation, small fins, and small heads that denote fast growth.





Look at the color on this one!






I'll add some of mine soon, as I need to move them to floating cages from one of my ponds that I need to drain.

Edited by az9, 15 October 2008 - 11:03 PM.

As Uland mentioned above your best shot is likely the northern part of the state in some of the glacial lakes. These lakes tend to have almost as many pumpkinseeds as they do bluegill. I can't see it being difficult to get them from one of those lakes. I used to raise these and sell them but I no longer can send them anywhere because of the VHS band so I don't even keep them anymore.

As Uland mentioned above your best shot is likely the northern part of the state in some of the glacial lakes. These lakes tend to have almost as many pumpkinseeds as they do bluegill. I can't see it being difficult to get them from one of those lakes. I used to raise these and sell them but I no longer can send them anywhere because of the VHS band so I don't even keep them anymore.

Smbass,

Thanks for the info.

Anything interesting about the species I should know? Did you feed train them? If so, did you get better or faster growth and ultimate size over their wild counterparts? Is it true they spawn earlier than bluegills and prefer cooler water?

We need an online map where people can push pin the location of certain fish they find. Perhaps click on a body of water and add your finds to it. Just an idea.

We need an online map where people can push pin the location of certain fish they find. Perhaps click on a body of water and add your finds to it. Just an idea.

So you're mum on my questions?

Smbass,

Thanks for the info.

Anything interesting about the species I should know? Did you feed train them? If so, did you get better or faster growth and ultimate size over their wild counterparts? Is it true they spawn earlier than bluegills and prefer cooler water?

PS feed train well like BG. They will grow faster when supplementally fed. Start about two weeks earlier. But like BG go at it until middle August like BG when central Missouri. Temperature tolerance I do not is limiting factor for southern part of range.

Well I'm going to build an RAS complete with a homemade RBC. I'm excited! It looks like the picture below. Not sure which form of clarifier I will use. I'm going to use the tank as a quarantine tank if I am lucky enough to get into some specimens of pumpkinseeds this spring. I'm corresponding with Dr. Strasser of BOAH and she is suggesting I write up a HACCP plan so if I do get a positive from samples sent to Purdue for VHS testing the INDNR won't get into a panic and require me to drain my ponds or something.

I contacted the INDNR about the idea with no response. I'm kind of disappointed they won't bother to respond.

I'm not trying to compete with anyone, but is anyone interested in any pumpkinseeds in the future if they are VHS tested? I'm experienced with packing fish in oxygen bags and shipping. The only reason I ask is I don't seem to see any of the suppliers selling them unless I missed it? I would probably have feed trained VHS tested yellow perch too.

Sorry for not responding to your questions before, I guess I just missed them... Anyways I think Centrarchid answered them just fine for you and I have observed the same patern of them spawning well before bluegill but continueing well into the summer. I think there would be some limited interest in the pumpkinseeds if you were indeed able to sell them. I find I can move about 100 or so of any given species before it seems I run out of people looking for that species. So I do not think you will be able to sell a huge number of them as aquarium fish but you should be able to sell a few. Also keep in mind that if your selling them as aquarium fish it is likely that people won't want great big adults. It is much easier to start with young fish in a home aquarium and then you also get to watch them grow. Also unless people plan to breed them young fish last longer because they have their whole life ahead of them, so therefore you get more time to enjoy your fish if you start with young ones. Not sure this would be everyone's perspective but I think there are many other native fish keepers that would agree with this thinking.

Sorry for not responding to your questions before, I guess I just missed them... Anyways I think Centrarchid answered them just fine for you and I have observed the same patern of them spawning well before bluegill but continueing well into the summer. I think there would be some limited interest in the pumpkinseeds if you were indeed able to sell them. I find I can move about 100 or so of any given species before it seems I run out of people looking for that species. So I do not think you will be able to sell a huge number of them as aquarium fish but you should be able to sell a few. Also keep in mind that if your selling them as aquarium fish it is likely that people won't want great big adults. It is much easier to start with young fish in a home aquarium and then you also get to watch them grow. Also unless people plan to breed them young fish last longer because they have their whole life ahead of them, so therefore you get more time to enjoy your fish if you start with young ones. Not sure this would be everyone's perspective but I think there are many other native fish keepers that would agree with this thinking.

No problem I though Centrarchid answered the questions well too. He has much more experience than I have and it shows.

I was thinking if there was a market and no one else was exploiting it I can always sell the smaller slower growing fish for the aquariums. This would be a nice niche market and since I would be selectively breeding them I wouldn't want the smaller slower growing fish anyway. And of course fast growing large fish are not wanted in an aquarium as you say.

Good points! Great minds think alike!