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Elassoma Gilberti

Started by Guest_Okiimiru_* , Aug 22 2010 01:19 PM

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1023 replies to this topic

#721 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 10 October 2011 - 08:46 AM

Oh wow. Elassoma zonatum are a lot meaner than Elassoma gilberti. There wasn't any warning time or chance for the invading fish to run away.

Not, really... you can just see that for just a second before the fish I was following with the camera looks up, pauses, then angles his body up... but that was only in preparation to defend himself.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#722 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 07:05 PM

Recent pictures and videos from the Elassoma gilberti tank.

tank as of october 19th 2011 resize.jpg 128.55KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1

dark brown female elassoma gilberti.jpg 143.52KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...lberti.jpg.html

fat female elassoma gilberti eating bloodworm.jpg 165.11KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...odworm.jpg.html

good photo of elassoma gilberti male.jpg 119.65KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...i male.jpg.html

male elassoma gilberti hovers over diatoms 2.jpg 108.23KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...toms 2.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa... flash.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...iatoms.jpg.html

male is shiny blue resize crop.jpg 142.73KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...e crop.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...y blue.jpg.html

photo of elassoma gilberti male.jpg 163.33KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...i male.jpg.html

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#723 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 19 October 2011 - 08:10 PM

Big black dominant male chased him out of the prime feeding territory... even at the very end, you can see the same black male chasing someone else... this is very typical Elassoma behavior... defending a prime feeding location.

Nice clear video.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#724 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 08:17 PM

Nice clear video.

Thank you

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#725 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:43 AM

I've been adding microworms every day in case there are fry, but I still don't see any. I'm not really surprised that I wouldn't see any fry even if they were there, because I can barely find the one inch adults in this huge 55 gallon tank. Anyway, I keep adding food as if there are fry. Hopefully they're eating. Oh, there are also these unidentified one millimeter long white worm things on the glass. They move kind of like leeches (scooting their butts) and kind of like inch worms, so I'm not sure what they are. I'm not overly concerned, as long as they're not parasitic. I don't have any plans to commit chemical warfare on them or anything, as long as they stay on the glass and off of my fish. There are also tiny infusoria and maybe some sort of rotifer? Not sure on the ID, but there's a lot of tiny little life in the tank. I figure maybe the baby Elassoma gilberti will be well fed, if they exist, which they might or might not. *shrugs*

Here are some pretty shoddy videos I took of some male Elassoma gilberti. They're shiny fish. I like 'em.
The cracking sound you hear is the chair I was sitting on, which I was slowly breaking but trying to ignore. The fish didn't act like they could hear it.

As you can see in the second video, the silicate loving brown algae diatoms are dying off on their own, and the Hemianthus callitrichoides (dwarf baby tears) is starting to come back. That makes me happy

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#726 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:19 PM

Continuing the above post, this is what makes me think there are probably fry:

Edited by EricaWieser, 30 October 2011 - 08:19 PM.

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#727 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 31 October 2011 - 09:28 AM

I dont see anything here to suggest baby fish... this being a family friendly forum I will only say...

It takes two to tango... he is dancing like crazy :wub:

... but she is showing any interest. You can't get pregnant from dancing (despite what the parents in 'Footloose' tried to tell us). :rolleyes:

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#728 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 09:56 AM

Whenever I'm at the front of the glass, they act a little differently than if I wasn't there. You can see her start to follow him and then, because I'm there, turn to look at me and kind of do a little "Food?" motion. (0:58 in the video) I see them go back into the plants together a lot when I'm not as close to the glass, disturbing them.

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#729 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:54 PM

[quote name='EricaWieser' timestamp='1319992983' post='93884']
Oh, there are also these unidentified one millimeter long white worm things on the glass. They move kind of like leeches (scooting their butts) and kind of like inch worms, so I'm not sure what they are. I'm not overly concerned, as long as they're not parasitic.

I have those same white worms in my L. ommata tanks. No idea what they are why they're there. I figure it might have someting to do with the act that those tanks are fed primarily BS eggs, Grindel worms,and blackworms. The fish seem untroubled by them.

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#730 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:51 PM

I have those same white worms in my L. ommata tanks. No idea what they are why they're there. I figure it might have someting to do with the act that those tanks are fed primarily BS eggs, Grindel worms,and blackworms. The fish seem untroubled by them.

I would believe the blackworm theory, but not the brine shrimp (dried and saltwater) or grindal worm (not aquatic). I think my own worm things come from a friend who gave me a culture of infusoria recently. These worms are probably part of the microfauna that the infusoria culture was intended to jumpstart. I'm seeing little rotifers, too, so I think that's what happened.

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#731 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:13 PM

Philodina rotifers can crawl like inch-worms too, in addition to their slow spiral swimming. And there's loads of different tiny Turbellarian flatworms (other than Planaria) and Oligochaete worms in the 1-3 mm size range. Most any tiny invert you see crawling or swimming arund the tank is probably a scavenger or feeds on smaller inverts; NOT a fish parasite. There are very few fish parasites you might actually see free-swimming, like Ergasilus (anchorworm) nauplii and Argulus (fish lice).

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#732 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:40 AM

I haven't turned my heat on in the apartment, so the temperature in the tank dropped to nearly 60. I figured this is a Florida fish, it probably isn't used to breeding in water that's 60 degrees Fahrenheit, so I added a 10 gallon aquarium heater. That brought the water temp up to around 70. Maybe this will help them spawn. I still don't see any young, although I'm feeding them frequently and now 9/10 of the Elassoma are very plump. There's one particular fish that shuns the frozen/thawed bloodworms and will only eat live grindal worms, but other than that they're all eating well. I cut the bloodworms in half as they begin to thaw off of the frozen cube, which helps the smaller fish to swallow the very large bloodworm.

I also leveled the tank yesterday (the front had been 1 inch deeper water than the back).

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#733 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:01 AM

The temperature is up from 60 degrees F to 75 and seems to be staying there. That's about where it was when the Elassoma gilberti were breeding last winter. Still hoping to see fry soon. They're fat and dancing, but I don't see any eggs or fry.

Edited by EricaWieser, 10 November 2011 - 09:03 AM.

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#734 Guest_rahunt_*

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 04:58 AM

I love the pictures and the videos! I especially love there bright blue color, very catchy! They also look very healthy and happy!
It is very interesting for me to see there habits on the videos, you can really learn a lot about their behavior just by watching them! This is better than reading a book about this topic!

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#735 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 07:39 AM

I love the pictures and the videos! I especially love there bright blue color, very catchy! They also look very healthy and happy!
It is very interesting for me to see there habits on the videos, you can really learn a lot about their behavior just by watching them! This is better than reading a book about this topic!

Thank you

I'm glad someone's reading this old thing.

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#736 Guest_frigginchi_*

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:45 PM

This thread is EPIC! I love these guys. Now I must get some.

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#737 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 12 November 2011 - 03:51 PM

This thread is EPIC! I love these guys. Now I must get some.

yay

I'm glad other people like the Elassoma gilberti, too.

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#738 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 12 November 2011 - 03:55 PM

I bought the LED light that Usil bought in his first post on this topic, link: http://forum.nanfa.o...ook-at-results/
and added it to the tank. I don't really see a difference, but I'll probably leave it on anyway. Oh, I also finally ordered a new camera. It's got 1080p and 60 fps, so the videos that I upload once it arrives are going to be much better quality.

Tank with only two T8 lights, $30 each (including bulbs) from Home Depot (Lithonia 4 ft shop light): http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1
Tank with both T8 lights and LED (LED cost about $30 including adapter): http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1
The photos were taken consecutively, with one person holding the camera and one person turning the LED off and on. I guess the only way to improve that would be to do it at night, to eliminate the exogenous light coming in from the window.

Edit: Yeah, I just went back to the tank and tried to take a photo to show what it looks like with only the LED on. And my camera reminded me of why it needed to be replaced. It's a touch screen camera and it's over four years old. So when I try to tap the screen to turn off the flash, it just ignores me. So ... I can't take a photo with just the LED, because the camera thinks that it's dark enough to need to do a flash. *nods* New camera coming in the mail. And also, this LED is really not bright at all. I like my T8 lights from Home Depot. Link to them: http://www.homedepot...ight-38672.html They're awesome ^_^

Edited by EricaWieser, 12 November 2011 - 04:14 PM.

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#739 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:22 PM

Oh yes, and here are some recent photos of the fish.

gulf coast pygmy sunfish male and female resize.jpg 161.18KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1

gulf coast pygmy sunfish male resize.jpg 116.28KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1

Scaled image in centimeters of gulf coast pygmy sunfish resize.jpg 113.16KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1
(those numbered lines are centimeters, so this fish is about 2 cm long)

Edited by EricaWieser, 12 November 2011 - 04:57 PM.

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#740 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:57 PM

In that scaled picture above I count 9 anal fin rays. Am I counting those right? I thought the paper that established them as a species said they had 7 anal fin rays? I'm confused. I'm not very good at counting fin rays.

"A new species of pygmy sunfish, Elassoma gilberti (Elassomatidae), is described from northwestern Florida and extreme southwestern
Georgia. It previously has been confused with its sister species, Elassoma okefenokee Böhlke 1956. The two are very similar morphologically,
but differ in the number of preopercular canal pores (four in E. gilberti, three in E. okefenokee), in average number of anal fin rays (usually
seven in E. gilberti, usually eight in E. okefenokee), and in more subtle differences in coloration, body depth, and dorsal and anal fin size."
(http://biology.unm.e...et al. 2009.pdf ) ELASSOMA GILBERTI, A NEW SPECIES OF PYGMY SUNFISH
(ELASSOMATIDAE) FROM FLORIDA AND GEORGIA. Franklin F. Snelson, Jr.1,3, Trevor J. Krabbenhoft 2,4, and Joseph M. Quattro2