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Elassoma Gilberti

Started by Guest_Okiimiru_* , Aug 22 2010 01:19 PM

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1023 replies to this topic

#741 Guest_smilingfrog_*

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 08:54 PM

In that scaled picture above I count 9 anal fin rays. Am I counting those right? I thought the paper that established them as a species said they had 7 anal fin rays? I'm confused. I'm not very good at counting fin rays.

Do they have anal fin spines? The 7 count probably only includes the soft rays.

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#742 Michael Wolfe

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North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:08 PM

You need to read up on meristics, don'ttake my word for it, but I think, that you are not supposed to count that first short spine in anal fins. Which woul dmake the count eight... but again, you should read the paper in full txt... I wouldnt be surprised to see some variation on a trait like this. I mean even the small quote you posted says "an average number" and "usually".

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#743 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:32 PM

Eight is fine. I think this fish can't be anything other than a gilberti because it was collected near Tallahassee. I just wondered why I was so bad at counting fin rays. Not counting the first one would explain the confusion. *nods*

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#744 Guest_frigginchi_*

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 09:38 PM

Anyone have a source for these?

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#745 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 09:59 PM

Look for Elassoma okefenokee. They're very similar to Elassoma gilberti. There were some on aquabid.com the last time I checked, and occasionally Sach's Aquaculture or Jonah's Aquarium sells them. Ah, here we go, Zimmerman's Fish has some in stock right now. For very inexpensive, too. Link: http://www.zimmerman....com/Price.html

When you get your tank set up, please start a topic on the forum about your tank with pictures. It would be neat to see how other people are keeping this fish. I'm also having a suspicious lack of fry at the moment, so maybe if you get yours breeding I can copy your methods

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#746 Guest_frigginchi_*

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 10:10 PM

I've bought some from Zimmerman's. I wanted to see if another source has more mature ones .

Look for Elassoma okefenokee. They're very similar to Elassoma gilberti. There were some on aquabid.com the last time I checked, and occasionally Sach's Aquaculture or Jonah's Aquarium sells them. Ah, here we go, Zimmerman's Fish has some in stock right now. For very inexpensive, too. Link: http://www.zimmerman....com/Price.html

When you get your tank set up, please start a topic on the forum about your tank with pictures. It would be neat to see how other people are keeping this fish. I'm also having a suspicious lack of fry at the moment, so maybe if you get yours breeding I can copy your methods

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#747 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:05 PM

I've bought some from Zimmerman's. I wanted to see if another source has more mature ones .

Patience grasshopper... these fish only live a year or so in the wild (much longer in tanks) so you can start with young ones and they will grow in just a few months.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#748 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:11 PM

I've bought some from Zimmerman's. I wanted to see if another source has more mature ones .

One half inch males can hold their own territories and court ladies, although it's true they're outcompeted by larger males. And of course males court the largest lady (more eggs). But one half inch isn't something to disregard in the world of pygmy sunfish. That's either breeding age or very close to it.

Edit: Lol, Michael Wolfe beat me to it. But yeah, he's right.

Edited by EricaWieser, 15 November 2011 - 11:12 PM.

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#749 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:58 PM

The snails have died mysteriously. They're laying on their backs with their foot up on the air. Not a mark on them, but that they're dead.
I'm not really sure what's going on. The test kit also has no clue. The fish seem fine though.

dead snail.jpg 50.84KB 0 downloads

fish and dead snail.jpg 157.17KB 0 downloads

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#750 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:17 AM

That is weird. I did a search but can only find generalities like pH, salinity, copper, temperature variation or stray electricity. I see two choices; 1) wait and see if the fish are effected or if it is important to keep the fish alive, 2) remove the fish and plants to a temp tank, completely reset the original tank and start over.

You should do an autopsy to see if tumors, skin lesions/infections, parasites, etc...

Usil

Edited by Usil, 17 November 2011 - 12:20 AM.

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#751 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 07:58 AM

I'm going to choose option #1. I think the cause is the stuff that's underneath the kitty litter, that Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix®. I've got two tanks and the major difference between the two is that this one has that stupid potting mix in it. The other tank is always crystal clear, while in this tank the water turns opaque if I don't do a water change for a week. It used to be worse, before I capped and recapped the potting mix with kitty litter. It used to turn opaque within a day after doing a 100% water change. That was a pretty bad time. It's a good thing I have this faucet connection hose, because in the days when I had to change water with buckets daily water changes definitely would not have happened.
I'm not taking it out though. It's impossible to catch every single baby (if they exist) and probably even every single adult. And the tank has been getting progressively better and better since I first added this problem potting mix in July. It has been going longer and longer without the water getting opaque, as whatever is in the potting mix is slowly diluted. My hope is that soon it will be so dilute that it's like it's not there. I just figured I would report this snail die off, since the last time it happened I didn't report it and then I was like, "Why are my fish dying?" A good scientist writes everything down in their lab notebook, right? So I'm mentioning the snail die off. I also did a like 90% water change, so the water's crystal clear again for the time being. The majority of the snails remain alive, unlike last time when I was fooled into thinking I'd get a snail free planted tank because of all this. One of the lymnaea must have lived, although it looks like the ramshorn species became extinct.

New fish picture:

fishy_resize.jpg 111.22KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...hy_001.jpg.html

Edited by EricaWieser, 17 November 2011 - 08:23 AM.

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#752 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 10:27 AM

I don't know what's wrong with this guy. It reminds me of when a person has a stroke; how sometimes they can only smile with half their face. It looks like he's lost control over the pigment in that region of his tail.

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#753 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:47 AM

Snails: Are the dying snails all adults, or is it affecting all sizes/ages? I doubt it's due to the potting soil, or you probably would have seen effects much sooner. I thinks that's a Physa snail (aperture on left), not Lymnaea (aperture on right).

Pygmy tail color blotch: Did this happen suddenly or gradually? Looks like a perfectly happy healthy fish otherwise. Loss of color control on the body can sometimes be a disease symptom, but this fin blotch looks pretty benign, so far. It looks like he's still using it normally.

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#754 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:47 PM

The dead snails are adults. Here's an image of the clump of them: http://gallery.nanfa...snails.jpg.html
Their deaths happened at the same time that the water was allowed to get much cloudier than it usually is. I noticed it getting worse and worse but wasn't able to do a water change for a few days. When I finally did a nearly full water change on Wednesday, that was when I noticed the dead snails. It was pretty foul; the water actually had an odor and was so opaque that you couldn't see the plants at all. That's why I think it was the potting mix that killed the snails. The tank without potting mix doesn't get cloudy and smelly like this one does. It also doesn't volcano up with sulfurous gases, which is what the Elassoma gilberti tank was doing on Tuesday.

I think the reason that the snails died is because this is the first cloudy water incident that has gotten to the point of smelling since way back a couple months ago when all the snails died off. I guess the snails that survived and bred passed on resistance to most of their offspring (not all of the snails died this time) but some of the offspring were still sensitive. So the next time that cloudy gross water happened, the sensitive snails succumbed.

*nods* It makes sense now. I hadn't put the timing of the cloudy water and the appearance of the dead snails together yet, but talking about it to you all has helped me figure out their cause of death. I had been thinking about a couple other things that might have caused it (new dechlorinator, rotting bloodworms, media from microworm culture) but now that I think about it, the rotting sulfurous stuff from the potting mix does make the most sense.

I just noticed the fin color this morning. It either suddenly occurred or I didn't notice it before today.

Edited by EricaWieser, 17 November 2011 - 01:00 PM.

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#755 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 07:11 PM

The new camera arrived. Here's an update on how the fish with the weird color stroke is doing, mostly because I had a new camera and wanted to test it out. This is the first video you can watch in 1080p.

Edited by EricaWieser, 18 November 2011 - 07:17 PM.

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#756 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 12:08 AM

Nice camera.

Usil

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#757 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 10:02 AM

Nice camera.

Usil

Thank you. I bought it just for my fish

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#758 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 03:42 PM

If you toggle the button in the bottom right hand corner, you can watch this video in 1080p HD.

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#759 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 04:44 PM

Watching it from YouTube and then clicking on it to watch at full screen is the way to see HD in all it's glory (Monitor should be capable of viewing 1920 by 1200). Great quality. A joy to watch over normal videos.

Usil

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#760 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 05:32 PM

Watching it from YouTube and then clicking on it to watch at full screen is the way to see HD in all it's glory (Monitor should be capable of viewing 1920 by 1200). Great quality. A joy to watch over normal videos.

Usil

thank you