Elassoma Gilberti

I realized that I never really uploaded any pictures of what I feed my Elassoma gilberti. So here is an image of the grindal worm culture, which I keep inside a drawer in a dresser under the 10 gallon fish tank, and the frozen bloodworms.

http://gallery.nanfa...02_001.JPG.html
http://gallery.nanfa...04_001.JPG.html
(the dresser: http://img.photobuck...imiru/003-4.jpg )

The Elassoma gilberti love to eat these live grindal worms and thawed bloodworms. They are all well fed and colorful now.

Current picture of the tank: http://gallery.nanfa...er/008.JPG.html
Current picture of the fish: http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1
This Sanyo Xacti camera has nice 1080p video but isn't as good at still images as my old camera.

This Sanyo Xacti camera has nice 1080p video but isn't as good at still images as my old camera.

So it turns out that the Xacti came preset to a lower picture quality than its maximum capability. I changed it to the highest resolution and the image quality is better. Here are some pictures of the Elassoma gilberti that I took just a few minutes ago.
Yes, that is a male guppy in the background. He is in the tank to serve as a 'canary in a coal mine' (the Elassoma might not show signs of distress when a pathogen is present, but he would).

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I'm having some problems uploading the pictures of the pygmy sunfish to the NANFA gallery for non-forum-members to see. The gallery takes me back to the homepage when I try to upload an image.


I had been worried that spending the last week with no food while I was away on Christmas vacation would deplete their fat reserves (especially the females, who need a good amount of fat to support healthy eggs) but after feeding them two cubes of frozen bloodworms after getting back this morning, it looks like they're doing pretty well. I like that they still have nice round bellies. It's a good omen for future fry sightings.

The worm cultures did well during the vacation week. I started two microworm cultures immediately before I left which are going strong on yeast infused oatmeal. The grindal worms were cleaned the day I left by running water through their substrate sponges, and are still smelling pretty decent (for a worm culture) and have increased in population.

Edited by EricaWieser, 29 December 2011 - 04:42 PM.

I noticed in the third picture down that you have some green filamentous algae growing off some plants. I have noticed in my 55 gallon that this is now starting to grow in my tank as well. I am not too concerned about it and figure to trim it from time to time. I figure algae has a place in the tank along with the other plants since this is a native tank. My tank is almost 4 months old now and the green filamentous algae has just started to grow noticeably off of some of the plants in the past month.

Do you try to control this or let it go?

Usil

I noticed in the third picture down that you have some green filamentous algae growing off some plants. I have noticed in my 55 gallon that this is now starting to grow in my tank as well. I am not too concerned about it and figure to trim it from time to time. I figure algae has a place in the tank along with the other plants since this is a native tank. My tank is almost 4 months old now and the green filamentous algae has just started to grow noticeably off of some of the plants in the past month.

Do you try to control this or let it go?

I remove the cladophora algae as soon as I see it, with tweezers and as completely as possible. I used to wage war on it with various chemicals but have since given up (you can read the old posts in this topic if you're interested). The chemicals melted the cladophora, yes, but then the melted parts started growing again.

The stringy, almost bladderwort-like vine algae/plant (I haven't identified it yet) is something I remove periodically but am tolerating. It's not very good at life, and only successfully parasites half of the plant species in the tank. For example, the Lysimacchia nummularia grows so densely that the vine-plant can't grow inside its recesses. On the opposite side of the spectrum, the Myriophyllum pinnatum and Proserpinaca palustris don't block the light as completely and are overgrown with dozens of little strands. I have to remove the vine-plant with tweezers from the Proserpinaca palustris to let the palustris grow upward, or else the chain-like strands of vine-plant keep it down.

I guess overall it's about finding a middle path. It's impossible to completely remove it, so I guess all you can do is make the growth conditions unfavorable for it so that although it's present, it grows extremely slowly. What you see now is the unfortunate but necessary consequence of leaving a light on for over a week while I was away on vacation. Recently although the algae is there, it's been extremely minor.

Edited by EricaWieser, 29 December 2011 - 10:20 PM.

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I'm having some problems uploading the pictures of the pygmy sunfish to the NANFA gallery for non-forum-members to see. The gallery takes me back to the homepage when I try to upload an image.

It works again now.
http://gallery.nanfa.../first.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...second.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa.../third.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...fourth.jpg.html

The stringy, almost bladderwort-like vine algae/plant (I haven't identified it yet) is something I remove periodically but am tolerating. It's not very good at life, and only successfully parasites half of the plant species in the tank. For example, the Lysimacchia nummularia grows so densely that the vine-plant can't grow inside its recesses. On the opposite side of the spectrum, the Myriophyllum pinnatum and Proserpinaca palustris don't block the light as completely and are overgrown with dozens of little strands. I have to remove the vine-plant with tweezers from the Proserpinaca palustris to let the palustris grow upward, or else the chain-like strands of vine-plant keep it down.

I guess overall it's about finding a middle path. It's impossible to completely remove it, so I guess all you can do is make the growth conditions unfavorable for it so that although it's present, it grows extremely slowly. What you see now is the unfortunate but necessary consequence of leaving a light on for over a week while I was away on vacation. Recently although the algae is there, it's been extremely minor.

The bladderwort-like plant is... a bladderwort! I think Utricularia gibba, but my ID books are at work and I am taking the day off. I am rather fond of Utricularia species. They have nice flowers, too!

The bladderwort-like plant is... a bladderwort! I think Utricularia gibba, but my ID books are at work and I am taking the day off. I am rather fond of Utricularia species. They have nice flowers, too!

It does look like Utricularia gibba, thank you for the ID. I am fond of utricularia species, too Carnivorous plants are cool. Does U. gibba eat meat like its relatives do?

Baby fish!

I am super excited! I saw an Elassoma gilberti fry in the 55 gallon tank, near the filter intake no less (the one region of the tank I was worried fry might not be able to survive). It looks like it's a month old, in fact, already leaving its birth substrate to go forage among the plants.

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I took a video but I'm not sure how good it is. It might help to click the tab to increase it to 1080p.

Congrats on the new fry. Hope a lot of them survive.

Usil

Congrats on the new fry. Hope a lot of them survive.

Usil

Thank you I am going to continue adding micro and blood worms every day. Hopefully there will be lots of juveniles soon.

Here is a video of the foods that I am using to raise the Elassoma gilberti and the size reference to the fish. Hopefully this information helps other people to breed pygmy sunfish, too. The pH and DH don't seem to matter, as long as the pygmy sunfish are well fed.



Caption:
The white wiggling mass is a clump of microworms. I add them daily for the fry to eat, and they stay alive and wiggling underwater for about one to three days. The red tube thing is a thawed frozen bloodworm. I add those daily for the adult pygmy sunfish to eat. Around a third of the way in a male Elassoma gilberti decides to photobomb the video because he's been trained to associate me with food, and he's wondering if it's food time again.

It isn't pictured, but I do feed live grindal worms to the pygmy sunfish, too. I just don't do that every day because the cultures are still growing in population. The synthetic substrate (sponges) are working really well because it's easy to clean them. You just remove the top sponges with the worms on them, hold the inner sponges down, and rinse with tap water. Then refill the plastic shoebox halfway with water again and put the top sponges back on. Very easy.

Here is a video taken just now of the 55 gallon Elassoma gilberti / guppy tank:



You can see the pygmy sunfish if you make it full screen and 1080p. I'm glad I bought the new video camera, as previously the fish were invisible when the entire tank was on screen.

The fish at the top are 10 female guppies that were put in the tank about five minutes before filming. They're schooling temporarily while they're unsure of their new environment. Guppies are fairly good tank mates for Elassoma in the sense that they aren't big enough to eat adult pygmy sunfish. They also won't aggressively hunt down and eat fry as long as they are well fed and the tank has hiding spaces. This is just a temporary arrangement though. Once the next generation of fry gets born in the guppy breeding program, I'll give these females away. I'm afraid they're annoying the pygmy sunfish.

I might have an explanation for the snail death that happened a while ago. I have a 55 gallon tank (the Elassoma tank) and a 10 gallon tank (the white guppy breeding program tank). When I removed the 11 female guppies to the 55 gallon tank, the 6 left in the 10 gallon tank felt more comfortable and dropped fry, so I've been watching that tank frequently to watch the babies. This morning as I was feeding the fry, I noticed a lot of dead snails, laying on their backs and with their fleshy part sticking up in the air stretching out of their shell as much as they could. Some of them are still alive and some of them are dead. Well, this confused me, because I had previously blamed the snail deaths in the Elassoma tank on the Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix™. This 10 gallon tank doesn't have any, just pure kitty litter substrate. None of the plant species are the same in the two tanks, either. And I feed them different foods, fish flakes for the 10 gallon and frozen bloodworms for the 55 gallon. There are only three things that are the same:
1. The filter media bacteria is homogenous between the two tanks. I rotate sponges, because the one in the 10 gallon kept a few of what I think are baby blackworms from my old setup back in Ohio. Now both tanks have little swimming baby worms.
2. The water used to fill both tanks is the same.
3. The kitty litter substrate.

So I tested the water. Nitrate was between 0 and 20 ppm, nitrite was 0 ppm, total hardness was like 25 (I think ppm is the unit, it got ripped off, but anyway that's what it always is), chlorine was 0 ppm, total alkalinity (KH) was like 45 ppm (normal), and then a giant red flag, pH was the lowest the test strip could read, 6.2.

So, I figured out what killed those snails. Back in Ohio, my pH never dropped below 7.5. Now it's suddenly 6.2 or less (probably less, that's just the lowest the test strip could read). It's interesting that the pH drop happened independently in both tanks (one due to decaying Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix™ poultry litter, one I'm not sure why yet in the 10 gallon tank). But that does explain the snail death. The fish seem okay. The adults seem normal and the fry are growing quickly with fat little stomachs. They were born last night so it's not like they've had a lot of time to get fungusy or anything. But anyway, yeah, I thought I'd explain that. It would appear that these snail species experienced some selective pressure back in the pH 7.5, DH 16-20 setup that is not helping them survive in this new 0 DH, pH 6-6.5 setup. Fish are all clear.

P.S.
The male Elassoma gilberti with the color hemorrhage on his tail is still there, still acting normal. I'm not sure what that was but it doesn't seem to have affected him negatively.

Welcome to the Land of Little Buffering. Once that 1-2 dKH of alkalinity in NC river water is used up, pH can drop FAST, often below 5.0. Many folks in Soft-Water Land use a few teaspoons of crushed coral/aragonite gravel in a box filter or a mesh bag to prevent sudden pH plunge. For fish that prefer soft water, use just the minimum, but for E.gilberti and guppies that are happy in hard water you dont have to worry about overdosing it.

Welcome to the Land of Little Buffering. Once that 1-2 dKH of alkalinity in NC river water is used up, pH can drop FAST, often below 5.0. Many folks in Soft-Water Land use a few teaspoons of crushed coral/aragonite gravel in a box filter or a mesh bag to prevent sudden pH plunge. For fish that prefer soft water, use just the minimum, but for E.gilberti and guppies that are happy in hard water you dont have to worry about overdosing it.

Thank you for the suggestion. I happen to have some small pieces of coral on hand right now. When I get home, I'll add them to the bottom of the box filter. I don't want to let the pH swings get too drastic and negatively affect the fish.

It's interesting that the pH drop happened independently in both tanks (one due to decaying Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix™ poultry litter, one I'm not sure why yet in the 10 gallon tank).

Decaying mulm on the bottom of the tank. There was a tannin surge about a week ago that prompted me to do a water change that I just now remembered. I sucked up the mulm from the front of the tank where there aren't any plants, but didn't stick the siphon hose into the back of the tank where there are plants for fear of sucking up little babies. So although the parts of the substrate that I can see have only a little bit of mulm, I bet there's a whole bunch in the half of the tank that I've never cleaned. I'll definitely add the coral to the waterfall filter when I get home to stabilize the situation.

Edited by EricaWieser, 09 January 2012 - 12:17 PM.

(edit: Oh yes, the 11 guppies are gone from the Elassoma gilberti tank. They were just in there for a couple days. Now there's just a single male guppy, who is serving as a 'canary in a coal mine' for the symptom-light Elassoma gilberti.)

Edited by EricaWieser, 13 January 2012 - 05:27 PM.

Post #777. I win. Off to Atlantic City. Try not to poach any Blackbanded Sunfish.

Do those fry mean you will have a few gilberti available soon? I'm thinking about setting up a nano of just a couple gilberti and some plants.

Do those fry mean you will have a few gilberti available soon? I'm thinking about setting up a nano of just a couple gilberti and some plants.

I hope so! I'm feeding the tank with micro worms every day, sometimes more than once, in the hopes that there will soon be an explosion of fry. I will post on here when there are

Today one of the new fry was large enough to venture out into open water and attempt to eat bloodworms with the adults during feeding time.

Yay