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Pygmy Collecting

Started by Guest_James226_* , Mar 28 2011 05:56 AM

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41 replies to this topic

#21 Guest_James226_*

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 09:18 AM

Well its finally raining down here so I wont be traipsing around in the swamp today.
So I'll take pictures instead.

On another note: Doug, I believe I collected some of those killis actually, when I realized what they were I had already captured more males than females, so now I pretty much have to go back for some girls since I have probably 4.1 of the L. ommata. Forgive me killi gods.

Anyway, back to the picture dump.
First is the Elassoma tank which I believe is just a 15 gallon. Over the course of the next month or so, I'm going to try to integrate it into my 29 gallon with the hets and killis though. It has better lighting so the plants should grow out much better.
First is a front and to side views, the plants are java moss and two I picked up from the swamp. DUnno the I.D. one looks like Elodea and the other a red hornwort.
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I did manage one ok shot of the Elassoma. I think they might be evergladei.
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and then a shot of the 29. The light is usually 130 watts but I have to go pick up new bulbs. In it are about 15 H. formosa, the majority of the L. ommata (4 of the killis are actually in the 15 as they eluded my initial attempts at capturing them), 3 Corydoras cats, and 2 Amano shrimp. I recently pulled out 3/4 of the java moss, so thats why it looks empty.
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Here is a picture of one of the new H. formosa as well as what I expect to be a male L. ommata.
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I've one more tank but its probably of no interest since its just a single Jewel Cichlid in a dim lit tank with java fern, moss, and a lonely banjo cat.

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#22 Guest_NVCichlids_*

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 09:36 AM

approx. 4.5 watts per gallon, I can see where you might be thinning your mosses

Nice tanks, I am hoping to move my zonatum's to a 15 gallon tank as soon as I move.

The killie appears to be male to me, but I have never kept so I am not 100% sure.

BTW, jealous of the killies/evergladi;s

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#23 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 11:58 AM

I think youre right on the Elassoma ID - It's too blue to be zonataum, so it's probably evergladei if you're out of gilberti range. Where evergladei and gilberti might occur together, gilb males should have a blue edge on the D and A fins, whereas everg has color mostly toward the basal part of those fins, not along the edge. Female ID: good luck, but gilb's are generally more coarse-speckled to blotchy (like Erica's pic) and everg's are more fine speckled, on average.

You're also right that the L.ommata is a male. Females should have shorter, clearer fins and a dark spot at mid-body.
The reddish hornwort-like plant might be Myriophyllum, and the Elodea-like plant might be Elodea, Hydrilla, or Egeria (the common petshop "Anacharis".

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#24 Guest_telsonboy_*

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 08:06 PM

Wow, makes me wish I lived back in Houston! The first natives I collected were E. zonatum, right out of our ditch (Oak Ridge North, for those from the area)... I kept 5 in a large brandy sniffer on the counter, I was 11 years old. They did rather well with the constant mosquito wrigglers from the ditches!

Years later, in my twenties, I was involved in assisting a friend with his masters thesis, cataloging the fish in Nacogdoches County, Texas. We found many sites for E. zonatum, but once while collecting Etheostoma histrio, E. artesiae (then whipplei) and fliers, among other coll fishies, I seined up the most enormous E. zonatum I had ever seen! Had to be just shy of 2 inches! Eatin' size! But kept it for about a year. A beauty!

Elassoma zonatum is found all over the northern Houston area, in ditches, ponds, etc. The best luck I've had was netting directly underneath lily pads and American lotus.

In Orange, I've found Het. formosa along the shore in vegetation as well. Kept them in a bird bath in our courtyard in Cypress, TX.

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#25 Guest_telsonboy_*

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 08:10 PM

HYDRILLA:
Be sure to check if you have Hydrilla, I don't know about FL, but it is extremely illegal because it is extremely invasive.

To determine Hydrilla from Elodea or Egeria (which are similar in appearance) simply run a stalk through your hand, wrapped fingers around it kind of, and you will feel the roughness of Hydrilla; the others are smooth.

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#26 Guest_jetajockey_*

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 04:02 AM

Hey James, another local, I'm in milton also. Totally new to the native thing, but have a few dozen tanks bubbling away in the garage.

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#27 Guest_James226_*

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 12:22 AM

Heh,
As it turns out I've 3 females and about 7 male L. ommata.
My male female ratio is skewed for them and the E. evergladei. I think it was stressed fish and bad lighting. Oh well.

I moved all but three Sunfish to my 29 with the formosa and ommata. The other three went into a 2.5 gal, one male and I hope two females, with a couple ramshorns. They seem to be doing pretty well with whatever worms or larvae I collect and young ramshorn hatchlings. In the 29 I see them slinking around the bottom and edges of the tank, oddly enough. I figured I'd never see them, but I'm not complaining.

I think the red plant is Mirophyllum, red Foxtail or whatever. Its pretty and seems to be doin' ok. Must be all the lumens. o.o
As far as hydrilla, elodea, or egeria...Its not elodea, too few leaves. I couldn't feel any teeth with certainty so I threw out all but one frond to grow it some to ease I.D. If it ends up being an egeria with lots of leaves, I'll be happy enough. Hydrilla is apparently a pretty invasive species here as well, telson. So thanks for the heads up. I wish I'd found an evergladei that big though.

Hey, Jeta.
Nice to make your acquaintance. If I had a garage, I'd have so many more than 12. Since I'm kind of restrained to 3 tanks at the moment.

I should probably look into getting a cultivable food though, I feel bad just letting the pygmies fend for themselves. I've been experimenting with the 2.5 and as long as it hits the bottom and moves they'll eat it, the size being small enough. So what do you guys think would be easily acquired and cultivated? Keeping to a poor college student's budget, of course.

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#28 Guest_jetajockey_*

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 12:42 AM

I should probably look into getting a cultivable food though, I feel bad just letting the pygmies fend for themselves. I've been experimenting with the 2.5 and as long as it hits the bottom and moves they'll eat it, the size being small enough. So what do you guys think would be easily acquired and cultivated? Keeping to a poor college student's budget, of course.

I can give you a microworm culture if you want to give it a go, its simple enough and cheap. My rams don't seem to bother with them but I've got some shellies that freak when I put them in.

I just got some grindal worms in, but the culture isn't nearly large enough to split yet, but when it does I'll let you know if you want to try them.

One other goal for this summer is tubbing daphnia moina, however I've yet to order them because I'm letting my tubs get better established.

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#29 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 03:00 AM

I should probably look into getting a cultivable food though, I feel bad just letting the pygmies fend for themselves. I've been experimenting with the 2.5 and as long as it hits the bottom and moves they'll eat it, the size being small enough. So what do you guys think would be easily acquired and cultivated? Keeping to a poor college student's budget, of course.

Microworms for the fry, Californian blackworms for the adults.

I use this method for harvesting microworms: http://www.waynesthi.../microworms.htm

Daphnia and moina are nice if you've got a tub open and in sunlight. I absolutely stink at keeping that sort of thing alive (sea monkeys, rotifer, daphnia, moina, etc) so microworms work for me. You just mash a wet piece of bread, add a sprinkle of yeast and some worms, lay a napkin or coffee filter on top, and harvest two days later and every day afterwards for the next two to three weeks.

Also, try buying a mortar and pestle and adding crushed fish flakes to the aquarium. Either the fish will figure out to eat it (some of my Elassoma gilberti do, some don't) or the snails will eat it and breed. Either way works, because Elassoma eat baby snails.

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#30 Guest_James226_*

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 05:25 PM

Bleh, blackworms are a financial hassle, not to mention the accommodations to keep the culture going.
As it is they're feeding off something in my aquariums. Whether it be young ramshorns or formosa fry in the 29, I don't know. I hardly see them so I wouldn't have the slightest clue. The three in my 2.5 most certainly are feeding off young snails and the occasional midge larvae I find when I go wandering around.

On that note, what's an optimum male to female ratio or Elassoma?

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#31 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 09:43 PM

On that note, what's an optimum male to female ratio or Elassoma?

I'm writing the following based solely upon what I've observed, not anything I've read. That means it could be wrong. Anyway, continuing,

There isn't an optimal male to female ratio. The male female ratio doesn't really matter. Guys hold territories, girls wander through the males' territories to spawn with the males. Guys do not tolerate girls or other guys living in their territories. Any fighting between Elassoma is based upon territory overlap and crowding of males, not whether or not females are present in the right ratio. This isn't like swordtails or cichlids, where if there are more males than females there will be fighting. It's more like bettas; the fish is territorial, and if it has its own little clump of plants to claim, it's happy. If it doesn't, and it wants some space, then it'll fight its neighbor to carve out a chunk.

Also, blackworms have only been a financial hassle to me when leeches wiped out their population. When they're not being eaten by giant evil leeches, their population is for the most part self sustaining. If you bought a small amount, cultured and bred them, and then stocked your tank with them, I think you'd only have to spend a very small amount of money. My local fish store sells them for $1 something a bag. If you bought a bag, bred it up to a good size, and integrated them into your tank, it would still only have cost that initial dollar something for your tank to be permanently stocked. My blackworms eat the crushed fish flakes I add to the tank.

Edited by EricaWieser, 14 April 2011 - 09:46 PM.

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#32 Guest_James226_*

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 10:34 PM

I'm writing the following based solely upon what I've observed, not anything I've read. That means it could be wrong. Anyway, continuing,

There isn't an optimal male to female ratio. The male female ratio doesn't really matter. Guys hold territories, girls wander through the males' territories to spawn with the males. Guys do not tolerate girls or other guys living in their territories. Any fighting between Elassoma is based upon territory overlap and crowding of males, not whether or not females are present in the right ratio. This isn't like swordtails or cichlids, where if there are more males than females there will be fighting. It's more like bettas; the fish is territorial, and if it has its own little clump of plants to claim, it's happy. If it doesn't, and it wants some space, then it'll fight its neighbor to carve out a chunk.

Also, blackworms have only been a financial hassle to me when leeches wiped out their population. When they're not being eaten by giant evil leeches, their population is for the most part self sustaining. If you bought a small amount, cultured and bred them, and then stocked your tank with them, I think you'd only have to spend a very small amount of money. My local fish store sells them for $1 something a bag. If you bought a bag, bred it up to a good size, and integrated them into your tank, it would still only have cost that initial dollar something for your tank to be permanently stocked. My blackworms eat the crushed fish flakes I add to the tank.

Ah then I suppose the size of a territory is probably going to be changing at any given time.
But your assumptions make sense from what I've observed as well.

As far as the blackworm thing, no where locally sells them. I'd have to pay, from what I'm seeing, anywhere from 25-40 dollars for lb increments.
Given it wasn't that extensive of a search, but that's what I've gleaned.

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#33 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 11:54 PM

As far as the blackworm thing, no where locally sells them. I'd have to pay, from what I'm seeing, anywhere from 25-40 dollars for lb increments.
Given it wasn't that extensive of a search, but that's what I've gleaned.

Ick, that does seem to be true. I see a $25 pound of blackworms for $11 shipping: http://www.aquabid.c...oodl

Maybe frozen black worms? They sell those in cubes at most pet stores. Honestly I'm looking into them myself, since my live blackworms keep all being eaten by leeches (it's happened twice now).

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#34 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 11:55 PM

Ah then I suppose the size of a territory is probably going to be changing at any given time.

Definitely every time you rearrange the plants. Poor fishies; I trim the plants once a week and they get all confused.

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#35 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 02:45 PM

Hello, I'm posting an update to my previously posted advice to get blackworms.
I've recently discovered that if you feed the Elassoma small or crushed fish flakes a couple times a day, they do all right. I'm supporting my colony of Elassoma gilberti on flake alone at the moment, and it's working out okay. The blackworms ended up being too expensive to maintain long term.

Edited by EricaWieser, 10 June 2011 - 02:50 PM.

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#36 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:03 PM

I'm writing the following based solely upon what I've observed, not anything I've read.

Erica, there may be hope for you yet!

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#37 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:50 AM

Hello, I'm posting an update to my previously posted advice to get blackworms.
I've recently discovered that if you feed the Elassoma small or crushed fish flakes a couple times a day, they do all right. I'm supporting my colony of Elassoma gilberti on flake alone at the moment, and it's working out okay. The blackworms ended up being too expensive to maintain long term.

Just want to throw in another option since we are talking about feeding Elassoma... frozen foods... still somewhat expensive, but frozen mosquito larva, frozen bloodworms, frozen mysis, frozen brine shrimp... all have worked well for me and been readily accepted by the fish... thawed in a shot glass with a litte bit of water... then added to the tank... they sink tather slowly and seem to be viewed as food.

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