Why Does Everyone Hate Invasives?

It's ALL a matter of opinion. For example, the definition of a healthy system depends on whether you're a barrens topminnow or a mosquitofish, or a supposedly objective student of such things. Which is better, a static system in which nothing changes, or a dynamic system in which populations decline or thrive according to the circumstances? We all have our ideas, but most people have little concept of how training and preconceived notions affect our perception of the world. Biological science is especially vulnerable in this regard.

Irate

your devil's advocacy is definately useful for helping others to hone their polemics, but do you really believe this? do you have any kids? do you think it's fair that we leave the world with catastrophic natural resource shortages, endless war and nothing but LMB and Cyprinus carpio in every ditch, pond and stream? we have free will and i think we should exercise it. just because knee-jerk enviro gobly-gook is full of logical inconsitencies doesn't make out-of-hand dismissal of every single concept implicated in natural resources conservation any more intelligent.

-D

Irate

your devil's advocacy is definately useful for helping others to hone their polemics, but do you really believe this? do you have any kids? do you think it's fair that we leave the world with catastrophic natural resource shortages, endless war and nothing but LMB and Cyprinus carpio in every ditch, pond and stream? we have free will and i think we should exercise it. just because knee-jerk enviro gobly-gook is full of logical inconsitencies doesn't make out-of-hand dismissal of every single concept implicated in natural resources conservation any more intelligent.

-D

Nice post, Puchisapo, I like you already.

your devil's advocacy is definately useful for helping others to hone their polemics, but do you really believe this?

Resurrecting an old thread? S'OK!

You would have to read all of my comments, and many others I have made over the years, to fully understand my position on this. But in a nutshell, my short-term view is that we should be good stewards. My long term view is that it doesn't make any difference.

Stick around - I advocate devilry quite a lot here!

Irate was right!

He's a brave man to take me on so early in the game - but I see he's a veteran of other forums, so that makes puchipaso OK in my book.

You would have to read all of my comments, and many others I have made over the years, to fully understand my position on this. But in a nutshell, my short-term view is that we should be good stewards. My long term view is that it doesn't make any difference.

i had guessed this to be the case and that your opinion was more nuanced. i would like to believe differently, but that's about what i think too. i wish that the situation were less hopeless. this is actually what has gotten me so interested in aquariums the last few years. i don't go to the field much anymore. you can watch as real ecosytems unravel over the course of just a few years and its depresing.

i didn't see that this thread was old. i think it was at the top.

cheers

-D

Before things start to get out of hand, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everybody that this isn't debate club or some sort of competition. Let's try to keep the devil's advocacy and related hijinx to a minimum. This thread has been irritating me for a while and will be tempted to close it if the religious and/or philosophical discussion starts to take over again.

Before things start to get out of hand, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everybody that this isn't debate club or some sort of competition. Let's try to keep the devil's advocacy and related hijinx to a minimum. This thread has been irritating me for a while and will be tempted to close it if the religious and/or philosophical discussion starts to take over again.

it doesn't sound as though it was taking that course.

-D

...and we're not supposed to be "philosophical"? what can we talk about?

-D

Well, the Pythons are fair game

Histrix has a low irritation threshold - since this is her domain I choose not to antagonize her the way I do the other mods...

...and we're not supposed to be "philosophical"? what can we talk about?

-D

Round Goby?

Maybe Zebra Mussels?

...and we're not supposed to be "philosophical"? what can we talk about?

-D

Invasive species from a scientific perspective, as this is a scientifically-oriented site. No politics, no religion, no intelligent design, no abstract musings about the fate of mankind and the universe. Everything else is fair game. Thanks

well, as Irate pointed out earlier, science undeniably overlaps with other realms of human endeavor, such as ethics and philosophy, but if any such ventures will cause you to shut the thread own, then we can try to keep with the more Cartesian view of science.

i mst admit, however, i disagree and i don't get it.

Round Goby?

Maybe Zebra Mussels?

clarkii
and
them creek chub right tom

Perhaps we can speak in code? It will appear to her to be a scientific debate, but we can use words with double meanings that only we understand.

Oops, was that public?

Oops, I did it again!

For clarification, please see the message from the admins at the top of the page. If this is problematic, there are many other forums on these vast internets dedicated to the discussion of these controversial topics. Just not this one. Thanks for being cooperative.

And what was that you wrote earlier about not antagonizing me, Irate?

Awe, this thread isn't going down a path we can't handle and sort of like this thread. Sort of like my pet common carp.

Just be good and play nice, you guys. I don't want to have to come in here put down the kibosh