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Rock Bass, Pumpkinseed Hybrid?

Started by Guest_donkeyman876_* , Aug 25 2009 08:06 AM

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44 replies to this topic

#21 Guest_coelacanth_*

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 06:53 PM

Picture of pumpkinseed x green sunfish hybrid. I am still voting for this.

Pumpkinseed x green sunfish

Pumpkinseed x warmouth hybrids do not have a red 'opercular tab' (thanks for the vocab!).

Pumpkinseed x warmouth

Weeeeeee! This is fun!

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#22 Guest_donkeyman876_*

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 07:11 PM

Random question: How are you catching those guys? I was picturing a fishing pole, but they're kind of small...

I am infact catching them with a rod and reel. Very small hook and a small peice of worm. Mainly going for the perch or catfish if I['m lucky but 75% of the time I get a sunfish.

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#23 Guest_donkeyman876_*

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 07:12 PM

Picture of pumpkinseed x green sunfish hybrid. I am still voting for this.

Pumpkinseed x green sunfish

Pumpkinseed x warmouth hybrids do not have a red 'opercular tab' (thanks for the vocab!).

Pumpkinseed x warmouth

Weeeeeee! This is fun!

I do think it does look an awful lot like the green hybrid.

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#24 Guest_basssmaster_*

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 07:55 PM

Pumkinseed flat out. Not every thing is a hybrid!!!

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#25 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 08:18 PM

"Pumpkinseed x warmouth hybrids do not have a red 'opercular tab'."

Pumpkinseed x warmouth

The putative warmouth x pumpkinseed in link above is a dead ringer for pumpkinseed x blueggill I made in the lab. Small mouth and blue-gray band along lower margin of operculum consistent with northern bluegill being at least one of the parents

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#26 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 08:22 PM

Pumkinseed flat out. Not every thing is a hybrid!!!

Thank you.

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#27 Guest_Burbot_*

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 11:11 PM

Also I'm trying to figur out what kind of catfish is in that pond. They seem too big to be channels or bullheads. Some are as big as two+ feet! But all that I can see are these large black shadows. I am almost sure that they are catfish but I do not know what kind. Thanks.

A channel catfish can easily get over 3 feet and some get bigger yet. Bullheads are much smaller (1-1.5 feet)
Nice sunfish

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#28 Guest_coelacanth_*

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 11:58 PM

"Pumpkinseed x warmouth hybrids do not have a red 'opercular tab'."

Pumpkinseed x warmouth

The putative warmouth x pumpkinseed in link above is a dead ringer for pumpkinseed x blueggill I made in the lab. Small mouth and blue-gray band along lower margin of operculum consistent with northern bluegill being at least one of the parents

Pumpkinseed x bluegill

Seems like a much deeper body, to me, in the pumpkinseed x bluegill than the pumpkinseed x warmouth.

Question @ donkeyman: Are all the currently-identity-being-debated-fish in the pond like this, or is it just a few that you catch that you find are different than the other pumpkinseeds? If all the fish are like the one you showed, it would be highly unlikely they're hybrids. However, if every once-in-awhile you catch one that's noticeably 'different' like the fish pictured, a hybrid might make sense.

Fundulus is right--not everything is a hybrid!

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#29 Guest_donkeyman876_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 07:05 AM

A channel catfish can easily get over 3 feet and some get bigger yet. Bullheads are much smaller (1-1.5 feet)
Nice sunfish

Probably 75% of them look like this. The rest aren't as dark. It probably just is a normal pumpkinseed.

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#30 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 10:54 AM

I have a sneaking suspicion that those shadows you are seeing may be carp...

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#31 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:04 AM

With the pond so small, if it isn't well connected to streams there could be a lot of genetic drift. I've noticed from discussions that sunfish especially are prone to variability within a species, depending on location. So just because it doesn't look exactly like other pumkinseeds you've seen before (in person or in pictures), doesn't mean it isn't one. A very nice looking fish, by the way. I love all that blue.

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#32 Guest_coelacanth_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:44 AM

Probably 75% of them look like this.

Yeah, I would agree that they must just be straight pumpkinseeds, then. Bummer, because hybrids are fun!

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#33 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 12:19 PM

Yeah, I would agree that they must just be straight pumpkinseeds, then. Bummer, because hybrids are fun!

Make some. Very easy and gives insight on magnitude of variation one can expect with nominal forms. Sometimes aids one in finding differences between nominal forms previously overlooked.

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#34 Guest_donkeyman876_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:17 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion that those shadows you are seeing may be carp...

That's what I thought the very first time I saw one right in the middle of the pond. But I see them every single morning and they are differnt shapes(longer and very wide at the head) and are also completely black. Someone from the nighborhood also told me that there were catfish in there.

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#35 Guest_donkeyman876_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:18 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion that those shadows you are seeing may be carp...

Thanks I got it out of the pond that all of the dark ones were in. It was one of the exceptions to the dark colour.

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#36 Guest_donkeyman876_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:20 PM

I think you have pumpkinseed sunfish that appear a little stunted.

How so? I've had hime for a month or so.

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#37 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:40 PM

The characteristic I look for in stunted fish is a large eye relative to total length. Other dimensions associated might be better for same.

Compare images of fish in hand and fish in tank. Fish in hand appears to have smaller eye. Fish that resume fast growth will loose the "stunted" look once the body catches up with eye size.

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#38 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 06:38 AM

Should have said:

Compare images of fish in hand and fish in tank. Fish in hand appears to have LARGER eye. Fish that resume fast growth will loose the "stunted" look once the body catches up with eye size.