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Elassoma Gilberti

Started by Guest_Okiimiru_* , Aug 22 2010 01:19 PM

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1023 replies to this topic

#901 Guest_Couesfanatic_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:06 PM

How are the eggs doing?

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#902 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:43 PM

How are the eggs doing?

The eggs are all gone. I'm not sure what happened to the baby fish. Millimeter long fry simply disappear in a four foot long heavily planted aquarium. I feed the tank every day with microworms just in case the babies are in there and hungry.

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#903 Guest_Couesfanatic_*

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:10 AM

hmm, hopefully they are just hiding. good luck.

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#904 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:42 AM

hmm, hopefully they are just hiding. good luck.

They can't help but hide. This is a fish that doesn't move on purpose. Its strategy to staying alive when first born is to stay completely still. The only reason I ever caught a picture like http://gallery.nanfa... fry 1.jpg.html or http://gallery.nanfa...06_001.JPG.html is because either the sunlight shone through from behind them and gave them away or their stillness wasn't enough to make them look like a water lettuce root. But it wasn't because like a livebearer fry they darted and their movement attracted my eye. No, young Elassoma gilberti hold themselves completely, perfectly still. There's a reason my pictures are rarely motion blurred and it's not because I'm a good photographer. It's like they're posing for each shot. When you're 2 mm long in a 4 foot long tank, your entire body is clear except for your eyes, and you stay perfectly still for hours on end, you can't help but be invisible. There could be a thousand fry in here and I wouldn't see a one.

Edited by EricaWieser, 04 August 2012 - 09:45 AM.

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#905 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:11 PM

I added an automatic timer to the lights on my Elassoma gilberti tank and all my other tanks. I realized that it probably wasn't helping the algae control problem to leave the lights on from 7am to 11pm, so the timer is now set from 6-9 am for the morning feeding and 3-11 pm for an afternoon plant growth period. Hopefully decreasing the hours of light from 16 hours a day to 11 hours decreases the algae.

The fish are doing great. Lots of colorful adult males prancing around and fat adult females spawning with them. There are again eggs on that one strand of myriophyllum pinnatum. It may be because this new setup isn't in front of a window (the daylight streaming in from behind made fry incredibly easy to see) or it may be something else but I still don't see any babies or juveniles. *shrugs* They're probably around somewhere. I'm considering cutting the m. pinnatum stem off and jar-raising a batch of fry to see if they really can eat these microworms as a first food. But I don't want to mess up his spawn site.

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#906 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:05 PM

The eggs are not too sticky. You can slurp some or all of them out with a lab pipette or turkey baster without cutting the plant

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#907 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:05 PM

The eggs are not too sticky. You can slurp some or all of them out with a lab pipette or turkey baster without cutting the plant

I bought a turkey baster. Of course right now a second male has moved in on the prime breeding position and the two are too busy competing for the spot for either to have mated. There are no eggs to collect. I'll keep watching. Maybe after one wins there will be eggs on the plant again.

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#908 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 08:44 PM

The eggs are not too sticky. You can slurp some or all of them out with a lab pipette or turkey baster without cutting the plant

These eggs were probably laid sometime during the day today and are about 12 hours or less old. I sucked them up with a turkey baster from the dollar store. I count like 60 or 80 eggs but I don't know if that's all of them and it was a quick count. I divided them into two different tupperware containers to spread out risk. The goal of this experiment is to see if they can grow up with their first food being microworms with no rotifers present. If not I'm setting up a rotifer hatchery. But I really don't want to have to set up a rotifer hatchery so I'd prefer it if this worked and they accepted microworms as a first food.

Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...h 2012.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...r diet.jpg.html

Edited by EricaWieser, 11 August 2012 - 08:50 PM.

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#909 Guest_Couesfanatic_*

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:50 AM

nice, its gonna be interesting to see how it goes.

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#910 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:07 PM

None of the fry have hatched yet. Here's a current photo of the 55 gallon Elassoma gilberti tank:
Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...er/027.JPG.html

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#911 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:21 AM

Update as I'm leaving for work: Some of the eggs have hatched into tiny clear tadpole looking creatures that look like this previous photo: http://gallery.nanfa...oom in.jpg.html
I added like the tiniest amount of microworms to each container just in case they're hungry. If not, microworms in general live for a day or so underwater. In the past I watched some microworms in water over time to figure out when to time the fry feedings and they were all still very wiggly after a day. So this bit of food should be there available for them to eat at least until I get home from work tonight.

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#912 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:00 AM

Update: The babies have all hatched and are lying on their sides on the bottom, little tadpole looking things. They gently rest on the bottom amidst a sea of wiggling microworms. I have started wondering how I am going to clean this setup once the microworms start to die.

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#913 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:42 PM

Update: The babies have all hatched and are lying on their sides on the bottom, little tadpole looking things. They gently rest on the bottom amidst a sea of wiggling microworms.

I captured this photo just now:
Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...er/033.JPG.html

I have started wondering how I am going to clean this setup once the microworms start to die.

It turns out the dead microworms adhere a little bit to the bottom while the fry don't. It's easy to clean. I gently pour one of the tupperwares into the other, resulting in all the fry and water being in the same container and all the dead microworms adhered to the bottom of the dry container.

Edited by EricaWieser, 15 August 2012 - 05:43 PM.

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#914 Guest_Couesfanatic_*

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:18 PM

looks like things are going well. Thanks for the pics, its fun to watch.

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#915 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:50 PM

Before, when I jiggled the tank, only a few of the fry darted around. It was a little disturbing that they were all laying/rolling on the bottom, on their sides and not trying to right themselves. But I knew they weren't dead because they weren't rotting. Their eyes are clear and they are (although I might just be imagining it) growing. Well, anyway, this post is just to let people doing this in the future know that it's normal. Around this time, what is this, day 6? Yes, around day 6 after the eggs are laid the majority start darting around if you jiggle their tupperware container. Yay not-creepy fry

Edit:
Oh, and they are at room temperature (70 ish? 65 to 75 Fahrenheit).

Edited by EricaWieser, 17 August 2012 - 09:51 PM.

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#916 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:54 PM

Oh, these creepy little zombie fry. They lay on their sides as if they were dead but they do not rot.
Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...07_003.JPG.html

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#917 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:23 PM

Fry that wiggle before they can swim are usually species that have a parent protecting them in a nest, like Lepomis sunfish, cichlids and some catfish. For fish species that scatter from the nest before they can swim upright and catch food, lying still is probably safer.

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#918 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 05:27 PM

Fry that wiggle before they can swim are usually species that have a parent protecting them in a nest, like Lepomis sunfish, cichlids and some catfish. For fish species that scatter from the nest before they can swim upright and catch food, lying still is probably safer.

That makes sense.

Update: Day 8 (with day 1 being the day the eggs were laid): First floating/free-swimming fry. If you've ever seen betta fry where they hang under the bubble nest with just their heads at the top, tail pointing down, that's what these two look like. There's one in each tupperware container.

Edited by EricaWieser, 19 August 2012 - 05:28 PM.

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#919 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:18 PM

I've lost about 10 fry to poor water quality. Tupperware, *sigh*. I'm increasing the frequency of the water changes to twice a day to see if I can prevent more death.

Edited by EricaWieser, 21 August 2012 - 07:29 PM.

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#920 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:32 AM

I've lost about 10 fry to poor water quality. Tupperware, *sigh*. I'm increasing the frequency of the water changes to twice a day to see if I can prevent more death.

The more frequent water changes seem to be working so far; no new deaths since Monday the 20th. I did accidentally pour out a fry into the 55 gallon tank, though. A lot more of the fry are swimming now and it's surprising how fast that can get themselves up to the corner the water is pouring out of.

Edited by EricaWieser, 22 August 2012 - 07:34 AM.